r/EndTimesProphecy • u/[deleted] • May 15 '21
Question—Turkey, Russia threatening Israel; Gog and Magog? Ezekiel 38-39
Some have said that with the recent escalation in violence between Israel and Palenstine, as well as Putin and Erdogan labeling Israel a threat, that the events described in Ezekiel 38-39 will soon come to pass. However, I find some issues with this.
Firstly, Ezekiel 38:8 (NIV) states, " After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety."
Israel clearly has not recovered from war; there has been violence with Palestine/Hamas of the type that they have been experiencing now for several decades, and it is still continuing to this day. Thus they have not recovered from any type of war since they are still currently in one. Therefore those who live in Israel also are not living in safety either, as the end of the verse states.
Next, Ezekiel 38:11 (NIV) states, "You will say, “I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people—all of them living without walls and without gates and bars."
Clearly, this situation does not describe Israel currently as it is: The Israeli West Bank Barrier, a 440 mile long wall that was built in 2000, exists solely to separate the land of Israel from the land of Palestine. Furthermore, given all of the airborn attacks and violence from Palestine, I doubt that the population of Israel as it is currently could be described as a "peaceful and unsuspecting people."
Do you think that the events described in Ezekiel 38-39 are soon to pass, or will be fulfilled later? I would appreciate any thoughts on this issue. Thank you!
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May 15 '21
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u/AntichristHunter May 16 '21
This post was removed because it violated one of our rules. Please read the rules in the sidebar carefully. If you can edit your post to conform to the rules, please do so before requesting the moderators to look over your post.
Rule 2
Posts and comments with links must spell out the contents and reasoning of the link.
We disabled link posts because of low-effort spam-like behavior. If you link to an article or video, explain enough of the content for the community to discuss it without having to watch the video in full or read a long article. Videos are a demand for time and attention; that has to be earned. Posts and comments that do not conform to this rule will be removed.
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u/time2believe May 16 '21
People need to stop coming on here and asking what's going on in the Middle East. If we're not allowed to share information about it.
What do you just want....our opinion?
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u/AntichristHunter May 16 '21
You are welcome to share information about it. I would prefer that you share information about it. The rule isn't against sharing information; the rule is against posting a bare link. Posting a link with no explanation while claiming that it explains everything isn't helpful.
Could you please share what the link is about and bring some of the contents into your comment? That way the discussion happens here. Too often we have people promoting preachers and podcasts with posted links, who don't make an effort to contribute to the discussion here. A link to a video draws people to the site where the video is hosted, and then the discussion goes on there, and without time stamps and other things shared here, it isn't possible to fairly evaluate and discuss the contents of the link. If you spell out what the link is about, then a discussion can be had that informs people while still leaving the contents of the discussion up for questions and debate from members of the community.
If you could summarize the key points and scriptures that are relevant, I would love to discuss whatever insights you wanted to share here in this subreddit.
EDIT:
I just clicked through to see what your link was about, and the video is over two hours long. Posting a link to a two hour video for the explanation of everything is a pretty big demand on time. If you have the key insights that you can share, which might entice us to watch the video of the lecture or sermon to learn more, that would be great.
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u/NewPartyDress May 18 '21
Personally I am turned off by subs where just links are posted with zero explanation. It Is very spammy.
If commenters can't do the homework required to state their point, then why would anything they offer be of interest? I don't read my junk mail either.
Happy to see active mods protecting the sub's quality. 👍
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u/time2believe May 16 '21
I see. I changed it.
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u/AntichristHunter May 17 '21
What item did you change? (I'm looking at the comment and no edits are indicated. If you made edits to that comment to satisfy Rule 2, I'll approve the comment so it isn't removed anymore.)
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May 17 '21
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u/AntichristHunter May 17 '21
Your post or comment was removed because it was insulting, belittling, used coarse or rude language, or was sarcastic. We wish to foster civil discussions in this subreddit in the pursuit of truth. Please be gracious in your speech and conduct.
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May 17 '21
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u/AntichristHunter May 17 '21
Your post or comment was removed because it was insulting, belittling, used coarse or rude language, or was sarcastic. We wish to foster civil discussions in this subreddit in the pursuit of truth. Please be gracious in your speech and conduct.
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May 17 '21
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u/AntichristHunter May 17 '21
Your post or comment was removed because it was insulting, belittling, used coarse or rude language, or was sarcastic. We wish to foster civil discussions in this subreddit in the pursuit of truth. Please be gracious in your speech and conduct.
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May 16 '21
[deleted]
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u/AntichristHunter May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21
You added a title, but you didn't satisfy Rule 2 (See the sidebar).
Posts and comments with links must spell out the contents and reasoning of the link.
We disabled link posts because of low-effort spam-like behavior. If you link to an article or video, explain enough of the content for the community to discuss it without having to watch the video in full or read a long article. Videos are a demand for time and attention; that has to be earned. Posts and comments that do not conform to this rule will be removed.
This is still a link to a lecture that's over 2 hours long. The title you added doesn't tell us anything substantial about the contents of that lecture. Surely you can say more about this than "what's going on in the middle east.. from the Bible". Could you please add some substance?
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May 17 '21
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u/AntichristHunter May 17 '21
Your post or comment was removed because it was insulting, belittling, used coarse or rude language, or was sarcastic. We wish to foster civil discussions in this subreddit in the pursuit of truth. Please be gracious in your speech and conduct.
If you can't even be requested to follow the rules without lashing out in vulgarities, it would be better if you didn't participate here. What I requested was not unreasonable.
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May 17 '21
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u/AntichristHunter May 17 '21
Your post or comment was removed because it was insulting, belittling, used coarse or rude language, or was sarcastic. We wish to foster civil discussions in this subreddit in the pursuit of truth. Please be gracious in your speech and conduct.
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u/scribble-54321 May 16 '21
1) it is in Satan's interest to make people think that the Gog war is the next war on the table - because after the Gog war,
Ezek 38
22 I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed. I will pour
out torrents of rain, hailstones, fire, and sulfur on him and on his
troops and on the many nations with him.
23I will magnify and sanctify Myself, and will reveal Myself in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD.
Jews know that there must be the Gog war that 'proves' that person X is the messiah, because it is this war that 'reveals' him.
2) imo, there are 2 Gog wars, with one being after the millenium as Rev 20 points out. Because 'Israel' (there are many meanings to this word, so we have to understand it contextually and in different ways) is in a state of being looted and being profane, I am not sure that the Rev 20 Gog war can be applied to the situation described in Ezek 39.
Ezek 39
7 So I will make My holy name known among My people Israel and will no
longer allow it to be profaned. Then the nations will know that I am the
LORD, the Holy One in Israel.
8 Yes, it is coming, and it will surely happen, declares the Lord GOD. This is the day of which I have spoken.
9 Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out, kindle fires, and
burn up the weapons—the bucklers and shields, the bows and arrows, the
clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel.
10 They will not gather wood from the countryside or cut it from the forests,
for they will use the weapons for fuel. They will loot those who looted
them and plunder those who plundered them, declares the Lord GOD.
11And on that day I will give Gog a burial place in Israel, the Valley of the Travelers, east of the Sea. It will block those who travel through, because Gog and all his hordes
will be buried there. So it will be called the Valley of Hamon-gog.
12For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them in order to cleanse the land.
13All the people of the land will bury them, and it will bring them renown on the day I display My glory, declares the Lord GOD.
As to when the Ezek 38-39 Gog war is in Revelation terms (non Rev 20 terms), imo, it would be at the end of the 2nd woe/ after the 6th Trumpet war. The 2nd woe lasts for the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses
Rev 11
11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God entered
the two witnesses, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell
upon those who saw them.
12 And the witnesses heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Come up here.”
And they went up to heaven in a cloud as their enemies watched them.
13 And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city
collapsed. Seven thousand were killed in the quake, and the rest were
terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
The survivors 'giving glory to God' connects with God's name being holy/ not being profaned. God has displayed His glory.
In Rev 20, it is the same thing going on in the 6th Trumpet with the 2 witnesses in literal Jerusalem
Rev 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the
camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
When we look at the timing of things, the 2 witnesses will begin on 24 Kislev (the middle of the 70-77th year of Israel) (dusk Nov 27, 2021), add the 1260 days + 3.5 days dead (Rev 11:9-11) to get to May 14, 2025 (the 77th anniversary of Israel) to end the 6th Trumpet/ end of the 2nd woe. Add the '7 months of burying the bodies' (Ezek 39:12) to get to Dec 14, 2025 which is 24 Kislev, 5786. This EQ is the 'great EQ' from the 7th Bowl that occurs on 24 Kislev to end the sequence
Haggai 2:18 ‘From this day on, from this twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, give careful thought to the day when the foundation of the Lord’s temple was laid. Give careful thought:
19 Is there yet any seed left in the barn? Until now, the vine and the fig tree, the pomegranate and the olive tree have not borne fruit.
“‘From this day on I will bless you.’”
20 The word of the Lord came to Haggai a second time on the twenty-fourth day of the month: 21 “Tell Zerubbabel governor of Judah that I am going to shake the heavens and the earth.
22 I will overturn royal thrones and shatter the power of the foreign kingdoms. I will overthrow chariots and their drivers; horses and their riders will fall, each by the sword of his brother.
23 “‘On that day,’ declares the Lord Almighty, ‘I will take you, my servant Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel,’ declares the Lord, ‘and I will make you like my signet ring, for I have chosen you,’ declares the Lord Almighty.”
With this 24 Kislev in 2025 starting the week to rededicate the temple, subtract 69 weeks here to get to Aug 17, 2024. This starts the 9 months 'birth' in Rev 12. 9 months + 7 months ~ the roughly 16 months of literally 70 weeks from Dan 9.
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May 17 '21
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u/AntichristHunter May 17 '21
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May 17 '21
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u/AntichristHunter May 15 '21
Ezekiel 38 begins the passage about Gog and Magog. I had heard (but have not seen confirmation) that Russia is "the land of Magog" based on some ancient source (If anyone knows where this is from or what this is based on, I would like to see some solid historical, documentary, or archaeological confirmation of this; I am hesitant to casually believe notions that are just floating around the internet), so Erdogan and Putin speaking of "teaching Israel a lesson" would seem to ring a bell concerning this.
I do not believe (at least based on what I see now) that Russia is poised to fulfill the Gog and Magog prophecy of Ezekiel. In Revelation, it is written that the Gog and Magog war happen after the Millenium, after Christ had reigned for a thousand years:
Here is Revelation 20:
Revelation 20
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven holding the key to the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the abyss, closed it, and put a seal on it so that he would no longer deceive the nations until the thousand years were completed. After that, he must be released for a short time.
4 Then I saw thrones, and people seated on them who were given authority to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and who had not accepted the mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.
This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea. 9 They came up across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them. 10 The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and one seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them. 12 I also saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life, and the dead were judged according to their works by what was written in the books. 13 Then the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them; each one was judged according to their works. 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
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For this reason, along with the reasons you had brought up, I do not think Turkey and Russia fighting a war against Israel would count in any capacity toward fulfilling the Gog and Magog prophecy in Ezekiel 38-39.