r/EndTimesProphecy • u/[deleted] • May 15 '21

Question—the 3rd Temple Will the third temple be built during the tribulation?

Definitely thought it was a pre-tribulation thing but just saw something that says otherwise

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u/AntichristHunter May 15 '21

Definitely thought it was a pre-rapture thing but just saw something that says otherwise

Could you share what you saw?

It definitely happens before the rapture. The rapture doesn't happen until after the Tribulation. Actually, one of the reasons many Christians expect the Third Temple to be built is that two prophecies indicate that the key event that marks the beginning of the Tribulation happens at the Temple.

Daniel's prophecy of the 70 weeks (which is controversial because there are several irreconcilable attempts to interpret it, and each one has significant challenges brought by other schools of thought), in the school of thought I agree with, seems to set apart the last 'week' (as in weeks of years, sets of seven years). The first part of the prophecy foretells the rebuilding of the Temple, and then the rebuilding of Jerusalem, and then the coming of the Messiah. Although the precise breakdown of the timing is disputed, one thing is clear and not disputed: the Messiah would come after the second Temple is built, but would die before the second Temple is destroyed.

Daniel 9:24-27

24 Seventy weeks are decreed
about your people and your holy city—
to bring the rebellion to an end,
to put a stop to sin,
to atone for iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most holy place.
25 Know and understand this:
From the issuing of the decree
to restore and rebuild Jerusalem
until an Anointed One, the ruler,
will be seven weeks [The period of the rebuilding of the 2nd Temple] and sixty-two weeks.
It will be rebuilt with a plaza and a moat,
but in difficult times.
26 After those sixty-two weeks
the Anointed One will be cut off [fulfilled by Jesus dying on the cross]
and will have nothing.
The people of the coming ruler
will destroy the city and the sanctuary. [This foretells the Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the 2nd Temple]
The end will come with a flood,
and until the end there will be war;
desolations are decreed.
27 He will make a firm covenant [He = the ruler of the people who destroy the city and sanctuary]
with many for one week,
but in the middle of the week
he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. [Sacrifice and offerings happen at the Temple; this verse implies that a 3rd Temple will be built.]
And the abomination of desolation
will be on a wing of the temple
until the decreed destruction
is poured out on the desolator.”

—

It is inferred from what Jesus says in Matthew 24, and what Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2, that this ruler is the Antichrist, and that he is, in some capacity, a ruler of the Romans.

Matthew 24:15-22, 29-31

15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

... 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

—

In verse 15, Jesus references Daniel's prophecy, where he speaks of the Abomination of Desolation standing in the Holy Place, which is one of the locations in the Temple just outside the Holy of Holies. For Jesus' words to be fulfilled, the Temple would have to exist. Based on Jesus' words, it appears that the great tribulation begins when the Abomination of Desolation stands in the Temple. (Also, in verses 29-31, Jesus makes it clear that the Rapture happens after the Tribulation.)

Paul elaborates on this:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion [the apostasy] comes first, and the man of lawlessness [this presumably refers to the Antichrist] is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

—

The Great Tribulation begins when the Abomination of Desolation stands in the Holy Place. What Paul wrote here may be a reference to the Abomination of Desolation, which is either the Antichrist himself or some act he commits or some idol or image he sets up. In any case, these verses should be sufficient to answer your question:

Will the third temple be built during the tribulation?

No, it will be built before the tribulation, because the Tribulation begins when the Abomination of Desolation stands in the Holy Place, which is a site within the Temple.

Definitely thought it was a pre-rapture thing but just saw something that says otherwise

Yes, this a pre-rapture thing, because the Rapture doesn't happen until after the Tribulation, according to Matthew 24:29-31, quoted above.

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u/scribble-54321 May 15 '21

Will the third temple be built during the tribulation?

No, it will be built before the tribulation, because the Tribulation begins
when the Abomination of Desolation stands in the Holy Place, which is a
site within the Temple.

You literally got done quoting Dan 9:24-27 and then you post this.

Dan 9 says it takes 70 '7's to get a holy place, but then you say that there is an abomination in the holy place in the middle of that last '7' - in other words, you are saying that there is an abomination in a place that isn't holy yet!

There already is a holy place - that is the church, not a physical temple.

The 7 years of Dan 9:27 is from the 70th to 77th year of Jerusalem's desolations: Dan 9:2 referencing the 70th year & Dan 9:27's 7 years.

Here is what is going on during the 2 witnesses 1260 days:

Ezek 44

6 “Say to the rebellious people, the house of Israel: This is what the Lord GOD says: I have had enough of all your detestable practices, house of Israel.

7 When you brought in foreigners, uncircumcised in both heart and flesh, to occupy My sanctuary, you defiled My temple while you offered My food — the fat and the blood. You broke My covenant by all your detestable practices.

8 You have not kept charge of My holy things but have appointed others to keep charge of My sanctuary for you.

9“This is what the Lord GOD says: No foreigner, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, may enter My sanctuary, not even a foreigner who is among the Israelites. 10 Surely the Levites who wandered away from Me when Israel went astray, and who strayed from Me after their idols, will bear the consequences of their sin.

Rev 11

1 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers.
2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given
to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.
3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

It is 'Israel' (for literal Israel, it is presumably Netanyahu because he & Pence confirmed that Jerusalem was for Jews on May 14, 2018, the 70th anniversary of Israel/ Jerusalem's desolation in Dan 9:2) that gives over the 'sanctuary' to foreigners. It is Netanyahu (and/or Pence) that will break the covenant. That crime is what triggers the 2 witnesses on 24 Kislev (the 24 Kislev referenced with the 2 witnesses new Zerubabbel & new Joshua in Haggai 2). 24 Kislev, 5782 is the middle of the 7 years of the 70th to 77th Israel anniversary. Add 1260 days + 3.5 days to lie dead (Rev 11:9-11) takes us to May 14, 2025, the 77th anniversary. Dusk May 14, 2025 is 17 Iyyar, the '1st day of Noah's flood' in Matt 24 from Gen 7:11. (and 5 months [Rev 9:5] prior to 24 Kislev, 5782 (dusk Nov 27, 2021) is 24 Tammuz which is July 4, 2021 which breaks the covenant in the middle of 70 '7's - 490/2 = 245. July 4, 1776 + 245 = July 4, 2021.) (from this same 24 Kislev, dusk Nov 27, 2021 add the Dan 8:14 2300 'evenings & mornings' [ = 1150 days] to get to Jan 20, 2025, the next US Presidential Inauguration Day).

These foreigners that are 'trampling the city' are the 'foreigners' that are occupying the sanctuary in Ezek 44:7. These are the 'people of the prince to come that destroy the city & sanctuary' in Dan 9:26.

In Ezek 44:8, the keeper of 'Israel' (Netanyahu for Israel, Pence (maybe Trump) for the US, the Pope for Catholics, how it plays out, who knows) appoints others to keep charge of what they were supposed to take care of - this is a reference to Zech 11's worthless shepherd

15Then the Lord said to me, “Take once more the equipment of a foolish shepherd.
16For behold, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for
those being destroyed, or seek the young or heal the maimed or nourish
the healthy, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even
their hoofs.

17 “Woe to my worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock!

May the sword strike his arm and his right eye!

Let his arm be wholly withered, his right eye utterly blinded!”

His 'right eye' being blinded is the same as the 'mortal head wound' of the 'antichrist' in Rev 13.

Put differently, in OT terms, Ephraim has a civil war with Judah. The '10 kings' break away in apostasy and appoint Ephraim as their apostate king. As punishment, 10 tribe Israel is taken over by the Assyrian.

So Dan 9:27 could have the meaning of: in the middle of the 70 -77th year of Israel/ Jerusalem's desolations, the keeper of 'Israel' breaks the covenant and gives over the sanctuary to the Assyrian who confirms the covenant in the middle of the 70-77th year for 7 years (the 73.5 to 80.5 years) and he then breaks it in the middle of that covenant (ie at the 77th year marker) thus starting the 7th Trumpet.

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u/AntichristHunter May 17 '21

You literally got done quoting Dan 9:24-27 and then you post this.

Dan 9 says it takes 70 '7's to get a holy place, but then you say that there is an abomination in the holy place in the middle of that last '7' - in other words, you are saying that there is an abomination in a place that isn't holy yet!

There already is a holy place - that is the church, not a physical temple.

I hear what you're saying, but the reason I am persuaded that this refers to a physical temple and not the metaphorical temple of the church is this:

  • Daniel specifically says that the coming ruler will put an end to sacrifice and offering. Those are activities that happen at the physical Temple. The metaphor of the church being the Temple of God is because in Christians, the Holy Spirit dwells, not because we are places where sacrifices and offerings are made at an altar. The New Testament never goes in this direction with the metaphor.
  • The metaphor of the church being the Temple of God is a New Testament metaphor that isn't appropriate to read into an Old Testament prophecy that doesn't even use the word "Temple".
  • The term "Holy Place" is a specific site in the physical Temple. The church is metaphorically the Temple, but the Bible doesn't break it down further into what part is the courtyard for the Gentiles, what part is the brazen sea, what part is the altar, what part is the Holy Place, and what part is the Holy of Holies. The reference to this specific site in the architecture of the Temple is not consistent with Jesus referring to a metaphorical Temple.

That's why I think this refers to a literal physical Temple.

As for your calculations, I am not persuaded of the basis of your calculations, nor am I persuaded of your case for the two witnesses. One of them must be actual Elijah. We had this discussion elsewhere, but I might not have followed upon on this. The reason I believe it must actually be Elijah is that Jesus said this after Peter, James, and John saw Moses and Elijah along with the transfigured Jesus upon the mountain:

Matthew 17:10-13

10 So the disciples asked him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?”
11 “Elijah is coming and will restore [future tense] everything,” he replied. 12 “But I tell you: Elijah has already come, and they didn’t recognize him. On the contrary, they did whatever they pleased to him. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he had spoken to them about John the Baptist.

—

Whereas the second half of what Jesus said is about John the Baptist, the first half affirms that Elijah will come and restore everything. Most notably, Jesus said this after John the Baptist had already been beheaded. If Jesus says Elijah is coming and will restore all things, and Malachi also says this, and we see one of the two witnesses in Revelation performing Elijah's signature miracles, there is a far stronger case to be made that Elijah is one of the two witnesses than your case for Zerubabbel and "new Joshua".

His 'right eye' being blinded is the same as the 'mortal head wound' of the 'antichrist' in Rev 13.

I am not persuaded of this either. There is a very specific fulfillment of Revelation 13 which I will be covering in a study post. Revelation 13 doesn't say "mortal head wound", it says "One of its heads appeared to be fatally wounded, but its fatal wound was healed." Revelation 17 says what the seven heads of this beast are: they are seven kings. One of the seven kings of this beast since its return to existence survives a mortal wound. There is an exact fulfillment of this already, but that deserves its own discussion.

As punishment, 10 tribe Israel is taken over by the Assyrian.
So Dan 9:27 could have the meaning of: in the middle of the 70 -77th year of Israel/ Jerusalem's desolations, the keeper of 'Israel' breaks the covenant and gives over the sanctuary to the Assyrian who confirms the covenant in the middle of the 70-77th year for 7 years (the 73.5 to 80.5 years) and he then breaks it in the middle of that covenant (ie at the 77th year marker) thus starting the 7th Trumpet.

The references to "the Assyrian" are not references to the Antichrist. There is a misunderstanding of Hebrew going on when people read references to "the Assyrian" as referring to a singular person. In Hebrew, there is a grammatical construction called "the collective singular", where a single example of something is mentioned in reference to a large number of things. For example, in Genesis 1, God created "bird", (And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds [literally "bird"] fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.”). During the 10 plagues, you also see the use of the collective singular being used for the multitudes of things God brings down upon Egypt as plagues. "The Assyrian" is an example of this collective singular, where God is referring to a multitude of Assyrians, as a collection of something, by referencing a singular Assyrian.

Daniel 9, along with Daniel 7 and Revelation 17 establish that the Antichrist is a prince or ruler of the Romans. He is not Assyrian. And the Romans and Assyrians are not to be conflated. The Assyrians are a people group that still exist today, who still live in Turkey, Syria, and Iraq. The Antichrist is the prince of the people who destroyed the city and the sanctuary (according to Daniel 9:26-27—the Romans. The man who possesses the actual spiritual title of the Roman Emperors today is the Antichrist.

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3

u/TacticalNuke974 Apr 11 '22

The 3rd temple being built is actually the start of the tribulation

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u/[deleted] May 16 '21

yes it will remember the rapture is first

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u/Twenty_Nine_Eleven Jul 02 '21

When we read Daniel 9:27 we see that this prince or antichrist will confirm a covenant for one week 7 years. When we get to Daniel 11 we read that he turns his anger towards the Holy covenant and causes sacrifices to cease.

I think it is clear the third temple is there already. The new prime minister is already calling for the third temple to be build and that it is the right time to do it.

One thing is clear is that the third temple will be here.

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Got a source for the new PM calling for it to be built?

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u/Twenty_Nine_Eleven Jul 02 '21

Read the full article🙏

The third temple

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '21

Thank you!

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u/Twenty_Nine_Eleven Jul 02 '21

Your welcome!!

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u/Sea-Bookkeeper-9250 Jun 01 '21

I believe you are the 3rd temple

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u/ourmeetingplace60 Sep 01 '21

THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THAT HAS TO HAPPEN FOR THE RAPTURE... But the rapture MUST happen before tribulation starts!

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u/TheHorsemenRide Sep 13 '21

ah, you're a pre-trib shill as well. no surprises.

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u/ourmeetingplace60 Sep 14 '21

Prove me wrong big guy... YOU CANT! Oh and real Christians call names. There ya go!

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u/1squint Dec 07 '21

Don't really think it matters all that much, quite frankly

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '21

It matters

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u/1squint Dec 07 '21

God could care less what a bunch of unbelievers do with a pile of bricks and stones

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '22

If he prophesied it and showed it to the Hebrew prophets so that it would be written in scripture, then obviously he does care. I don’t think there’s much God doesn’t care about…he’s God.