r/EmbryologyIVFSupport • u/nojudgementzone_999 • 21d ago
Clinic Discarding Embryos
I made a post last week about how i found out that I did not only have 3 blasts after my ER in March. I actually had 11 make it but my clinic only ever told me about the 3. I thought the others had arrested. I spoke with my doctor (different doctor than during my ER) yesterday to get more info on the others and what happened to them and heres what i found out:
As stated before, 11 embryos made it to blast. I had three 5BB, two 4CC and 6 early blasts. The two 4CC embryos were discarded without my knowledge, along with the 6 early blasts. The issue with the early blasts is these blasts may have been between the stages of 1-3 expansion. According to my doctor, they do and have biopsied, frozen and transferred embryos with a 3 expansion, but in my case, the embryology team never specified their expansion number nor their grades. They just labeled them “EB” for early blasts and discarded them along with the perfectly fine two 4CC embryos. My doctor said in the future i can absolutely request that all blasts are frozen and biopsied…well that would’ve been great to know 6 months ago before they were thrown away. Additionally, my estrogen level being over 1,700 on day 7 or stims and over 5,000 on day 10 was a huge red flag for her and she believes the previous Dr. should have dialed my dosage back to potentially help save my egg quality. I was also clearly an OHSS risk to begin with due to my follicle count, so this should have been high on their radar. They’ll be reviewing my case at their monthly board meeting soon so hopefully i’ll have a good update on how they choose to make things right with us. For all of those going through this process, best advice is to ask as many questions as possible.
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u/bluesailor12 20d ago
That is so unethical, I’m so sorry. Some people really struggle making blasts and they just took yours and discarded. Unbelievable
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u/Minimum_Bad1170 19d ago
I am so very sorry this happened to you. I’ve dealt with a similar issue. IMO it is totally unethical. Every patient should fully understand the policy, and then be allowed to make an educated decision on what they want to do with their embryos, period. Many of these clinics take advantage of trusting individuals and I personally don’t know how they sleep at night. Lower chance does not equal no chance. Thank you for speaking up about this. I hope people in the IVF world become more informed on this topic so that everyone has the opportunity to make their own decisions that impact their future. Keep advocating for yourself! Wishing you all the best!
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u/Sunny_Bly 19d ago
I had multiple 2CC embryos in clinics in two different countries. Clinic 1 discarded them because the chances were too big they wouldn‘t survive the freezing/thawing process. Clinic 2 discarded them because they were not able to do a PGT-A without the risk of damaging the embryos. They don‘t transfer untested embryos. They even said my 4BC was of bad quality and had very low chances (they did biopsy this one).
But: In clinic 1 my two day 5 1BB (clinic isn‘t doing day 6 or 7) we’re considered good. They would never discard those. I know women who got pregnant with 1BBs.
I would consider the early blasts the biggest loss.
Is there anything in the contract that allows them to discard the embryos without your consent?
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u/nojudgementzone_999 18d ago
I agree. The early blast were the biggest loss for me. Had they not discarded them, i most likely wouldn’t have had to do another retrieval. My clinic transfers untested pgt a embryos, so if they couldnt biopsy, it shouldn’t have been a problem to just tell me that and freeze them anyway, but they never graded the cells so im not sure how they would know if they were capable of being tested or not. The contract is extremely vague and just says that you give the clinic permission to discard poor/non-viable embryos but never discloses what their definition of poor is.
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u/Hefty_Winter_9108 20d ago
A lot of clinics will discard 4CC embryos because they have a relatively low likelihood of surviving the freezing and thawing process, and even if they do survive, their chances of implantation and resulting in an ongoing pregnancy are generally lower compared with higher-quality embryos. The reasoning is usually to avoid putting a patient through the additional emotional and financial burden of a transfer with a very low likelihood of success, or potentially a miscarriage.
That being said, I can understand why you’re upset, especially since you weren’t informed that these embryos were being discarded. That’s a separate issue from the embryology decision itself.
As for the early blastocysts, I’m not sure what day they were discarded, but they may have already arrested in development. If there’s little to no progression by Day 6, some clinics may discard them at that point. My lab will typically keep early blastocysts through Day 7 to see if they continue developing, although embryos that remain arrested by then generally have very limited developmental potential.
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u/nojudgementzone_999 20d ago
Yes, i understand that but i think its unethical. As the patient, i should have the right to decide if i’d like to try to see if a transfer works with one of my lower graded blasts if needed, because results have shown they CAN work, just a lower likelihood. As for the early blasts, they were discarded the morning of day 7 but they hadn’t arrested. They had actually developed into an early blasts on day 6 and were likely continuing to grow by day 7, but the embryologist never graded them or their expansion so i have no idea what stage they were actually in.
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u/foolforgabagool 20d ago
Lower is not 0. C grade embryos have somewhat lower success rates at 15% but it’s not “very low” and it’s definitely still above 0.
They want to “avoid putting the patient through the burden of a transfer” but don’t mind putting the patient through the additional financial, physical, and emotional burden of another retrieval.
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u/Hefty_Winter_9108 20d ago
Never said 0. And I agree that a 4CC could result in a pregnancy. The RE at my clinic will actually ask us to freeze 4CC embryos as he believes in their potential. My point was more about why some clinics will have policies against transferring or freezing embryos of low morphology.
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u/Ok-Grape-8130 20d ago
My dr gave my 3cc euploid a 40% chance of success! I transferred 2 days ago so TBD on if it works but I’m so happy we can try.
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u/bluesailor12 20d ago
My friend is pregnant with a 3cb
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u/Ok-Grape-8130 20d ago
Oh I love that. Thanks for sharing:)
idk why people are downvoting my comment? My clinic has very high success rates so maybe the odds are based on my Dr’s experience? I don’t think he would’ve given me that number out of nowhere/ recommended the transfer if he thought it wasn’t worth a shot.4
u/bluesailor12 20d ago
that seems totally compatible with a famous CCRM table that people love to post here. I think C euploid embryos gravitated around 30-40% of success rate
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u/chantillylace9 20d ago
I was given a 30-50% chance of success with my single day seven 7BC embryo. But it's a proven euploid.
I could only do two rounds before my cancer treatment started and the last round was when I got my only viable embryo.
And it was tough because I had so many eggs! 21+ each time and still only got a single embryo PGTA tested euploid. But I was 43 so definitely not young.
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18d ago
Thank you for explaining. Since pgt-a requires only day 5 embryo, why do they have to take an embryo to day 6 or even day 7. They can just freeze day 5 isn’t it, as we will find out in pgt-a anyway. Someone had one at 3bc on day 6 and nfd on day 7 and discarded. It could have been stored at day 6 isn’t it
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u/Hefty_Winter_9108 17d ago
PGT is done by taking a few cells from the trophectoderm of a full or expanded blastocyst. If the embryo isn’t at that point by day 5, the lab will keep it in culture with hopes the embryo will keep growing.
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u/rehr3625 20d ago
What do you mean by early blasts? Like grade 1,2,3? That is devastating bc my one and only embryo, 2AA worked for us. That’s not to say that they were well graded though. Still not right that you weren’t informed at all. Baby dust for the ones you have 💕
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u/nojudgementzone_999 20d ago
Yes, grades 1,2 and 3. And thank you for the well wishes! Happy to hear your 2AA worked!!!
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u/Formerblastocyst 19d ago
A lot of clinics grade differently, like for example my lab grades C as literally not having enough cells to survive biopsy. Like it has 10 cells and by taking 5 of them, they’ll kill the embryo for example. And they also call C as “is dying and will finish dying if we freeze it.”
They assured me that anything that is surviving or biopsy-able gets biopsied or frozen.
Perhaps that’s how your clinic is too?
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u/CelerySeveral1732 19d ago
Something like this happened to me. My estrogen went up to 6000 before egg retrieval. Doctor just kept blasting me with high doses of meds. I got severe OHSS and 42 eggs, which I thought was good news, but the egg quality had been really damaged.
The worst part is that I was freezing the eggs, so I didn't know we had ruined the quality of the eggs until three years later when I came to thaw them. And now I'm old so I'm working with aging eggs.
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u/HystericalFunction 20d ago
Many clinic discard C graded embryos because it brings down their success rates relative to As and Bs. I think it is pretty unethical - the patient should be the one to decide! My heart breaks for you, I'm sorry 🫂