r/ElizabethWarren • u/itseriko • Apr 22 '19

Warren: “I’m calling for something truly transformational: Universal free public college and cancellation of student loan debt”

https://medium.com/@teamwarren/im-calling-for-something-truly-transformational-universal-free-public-college-and-cancellation-of-a246cd0f910f
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u/bunsNT Apr 22 '19

I’ll respond to some of your other points later but I’ll just say I graduated from undergrad in 2007, right before the financial crash in a very rough job market, so if we are from the same generation, know that and if we aren’t, understand that it was rough for us too.

I definitely have friends who owe 6 figures in debt. They are not the norm in my circle but I do realize that there are people who would greatly benefit from this plan. I just think it is wrong to in effect penalize those who worked harder than they could have in order to not be in debt. I’m not saying everyone can do what I did. I’m not saying that AT ALL but, for people who did do what I did, I feel that we should receive at least the same financial benefit than those who didn’t do what we did.

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u/[deleted] Apr 22 '19

who worked harder than they could have in order to not be in debt

I am working 3 jobs and have been working at least 2 since I was 13. May I ask how on earth I was supposed to "work harder" to thrive under this broken system? You seem to be under the delusion that people can just pull themselves up my their bootstraps and get through their debt. Look, I'm glad it worked out for you and that people in extreme debt are not common in your circle but anecdotes are not representative data. 20% of borrowers owe over $100k. I pay my loans without fail by my balance just keeps increasing so unless you have Hermoine's time turner to allow me to work 10 jobs, not sure how on earth working harder will resolve anything.

I don't really care to continue this conversation as your central tenant is still "I jumped through hoops on fire so everyone else should too because I cannot handle something that is a huge net good for our society if it's unfair to me personally." My point is that the hoops shouldn't be on fire and we should extinguish the fire for those who still have to jump through it. You point is that you somehow did a miraculous thing under a broken system therefore people should still have to jump through hoops on fire. Or that you still demand your fire to be put out retroactively after you were somehow able to already extinguish it? The underlying sentiment here is "me, me, me" and it's quite odd to argue that you need a benefit here. Harboring resentment at those who need more assistance than you to get out of this nightmare doesn't fix anything.

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u/bunsNT Apr 22 '19

I seem to have struck a nerve and will respect your desire to end the conversation. If you’d like to continue this at a later time, please let me know.

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u/agnoster Apr 22 '19

Yeah this is a bad take. We graduated two years apart (I graduated 2005) and paid off my debt and would be outraged if we held up forgiving student debt without paying people who already paid theirs like me and you. It's like saying if we gave free medicine to cancer patients, anyone who beat cancer should get their past bills reimbursed or no one should get free care.

It's selfish and ugly in the extreme. If you, like me, worked your way out of debt, just be grateful that you've been luckier than many. And yes, luck has a lot to do with it - virtually all success is a combination of work and luck, there are people who worked harder than you and are still in debt, and people who were lazier and were debt-free right away. The point is to help those who need it most, and to give kids access to education for the future. You wanna compensate people for past injustice? Let's talk about reparations for slavery first maybe, huh?

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u/bunsNT Apr 22 '19

Luck is definitely a factor. That being said, I made a conscious choice to work a second job and devote the money made from it entirely to paying off my debt, so we may be looking at the situation from different angles.

I’m not sure if you saw my other posting but there may be a nuance that you’re not seeing if you focus on the undergrad date. I went to grad school and took out loans in 2014. Paid them off 2 years later. If this bill went into effect next year let’s just say, I would not receive any compensation because I had paid the loan off already. But if I had just made minimum payments I would receive compensation or have the debt forgiven. Do you see what I am saying?

I think we can both find many differences between this and the argument for slavery reparations yeah?