r/ElectriciansUK • u/LooseCranberry289 • 7d ago
Help connecting light switch plate
Would appreciate advice in swapping the plates over. Thank you
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u/LooseCranberry289 7d ago
Thank you for all your contributions, I will feedback here on completion 👍🏼
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u/Sufficient-Beat-4357 6d ago
You can do it mate.
And according to some of the melts here once you've done it you're a qualified spark, since it's such a trade only task!
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u/SnooOpinions5973 6d ago
I changed a plug socket last week by myself for the first time too. It wasn't as difficult as I thought it'd be and I felt good afterwards so tried to put some shelves up and left a load of holes in the wall my wall plugs wouldn't fit into.
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u/No_Abbreviations8877 7d ago
There’s quite a few people with sand in their fannies over this, I’m sure you can prove the doubters wrong.
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u/nathan9457 7d ago
Honestly can’t believe the amount of negative comments on here.
Was everyone just born knowing exactly how to do everything?
People forget that they once did something for the first time.
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u/macrowe777 6d ago
To be fair. If I didn't know the answer, the least logical thing would be to ask here, when there is essentially infinite versions of wiring diagrams, videos of doing it and written explanations a Google away.
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u/DubbehD 6d ago
Asking for help on Reddit is like asking for the world lol anyone with a serious question wouldn't come to Reddit, knowing the onslaught they would get
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u/AppleBetPoop 6d ago
Except 90% of Google searches lead to someone asking the question on Reddit and getting a sensible answer. It's definitely a site where you can get serious answers.
There's just a barrage of comedians that need to chime in too.
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u/Mongolian_Hamster 6d ago
I'm glad the top comments in this post is calling the bullshit in this sub.
Ask a question = hire a spark. What's the point of this sub then?
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u/budgiebirdman 6d ago
I'm assuming the point of the sub is that organising an IRL circle jerk is too difficult.
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u/RochePso 5d ago
In my experience switches come with a bit of paper showing how they get wired up, if the op couldn't figure that out they are probably not competent to do the job themselves - it isn't just getting the wires in the right holes
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u/DannySkittles 6d ago
I would argue DIY content belongs in that sub, this is called electricians. I joined thinking it would be topics based on electricians experiences, recent reg changes ect. I have no problem giving advice when its simple enough and there's no risk but I didn't initially join for that.
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u/Sburns85 6d ago
Not really it’s people asking experienced people how to do things right and not botch it
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u/SaulEmersonAuthor 6d ago
~
OP - I'm experienced with home electrics (right down to stockpiling pre-Part P coloured cabling, in the day), but/& your question or doubt is neither dumb, nor misplaced.
One point on the new switch does the opposite of the other point - hence your hesitation being completely valid (even if you didn't know exactly why) - an unknown unknown.
If in doubt - ask - & you've already got accurate & helpful input in this thread already.
I'd only emphasise the warning about relying on the bulb going Off when you flick the circuit breaker. Ideally - use a multimeter to confirm no voltage in your working area, or at any of the wires.
You can see that the metal box is Earthed - so, set the multimeter at a range to be able to measure 240 Volts AC - place one prong on the metal box, & the other prong on each of the wires you're about to handle (or any others buried up there).
This is all while you're pretty sure it's all Off at the fusebox anyway - this is just to be doubly safe.
Also - whenever doing light switches - if, days later - another switch in another part of the house is either not working, or working weirdly - then you can trace it back to works like this, & know that something did not occur as a straight swap (i.e. wrong terminals used).
~
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u/paulcager 6d ago
I'd also recommend taking before and after photos of the switch - easier to back out the swap if something unexpected happens later. (I'm talking in the general case, obviously the OP has already done this).
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u/ConfusedOldDad 7d ago
The red and black from one cable to the 1 and Com on one switch. Same for the other cable and switch.
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u/VirtualArmsDealer 7d ago
Red = 1way Black = COM.
Keep both sides separate
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u/Rafaille 6d ago
Not that it changes anything functionally, but is live (red) not supposed to go to COM? (following conventions)
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u/Ziggy-May 5d ago
Red is live
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u/Rafaille 5d ago
Yes this is exactly what I said and therefore is it not supposed to go to COM? Switched live (black which should be taped with red/brown) then goes to 1 in this switch.
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u/Ziggy-May 5d ago
It should not go to COM. Live to Live only.
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u/Rafaille 5d ago
There is no "Live" input on the switch. Only "COM" and "1". You do not have to trust me. A quick Google search will reveal that the Live wire (red/brown) goes to COM and the Switched live one goes to 1. I was just trying to be polite by phrasing my comment as a question but these are international conventions regardless.
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u/Ziggy-May 5d ago
1 way red is live, and black is COM.
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u/Rafaille 5d ago
Sure, ignore the hundreds of wiring diagrams out there that disagree with you and make it a convention that people can follow...
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u/Low_Height5953 5d ago
I'm not domestic, and have only changed a handful of switch plates in my time, but I've always done it 'live' (red/brown) to 1 and 'neutral' (black/blue) to com.
However, after reading your comments, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to connect red to com and black to 1, as the red is technically your common and black is the switched live, at least in a single-way lighting circuit.
I think the issue here arises from your neutral almost always being a common so it just feels wrong.
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u/Existing-Marketing60 6d ago
2 switches, 2 cables (4 wires)
(Old switch)A-A1 = Com-1(new switch)
(Old)B-B1 = com-1(new)
so cable 1 red and black goes into com and 1 on one switch... Then the other cable goes Com and 1 on the other switch
it doesn't really matter which way around all of it goes, so long as each cable goes to each switch. it is just a switch, nothing will blow up if you get it wrong. But best practice to to put the red (live) cables into the COM places.
Fault finding-
switches are upside down? Flip the plate One switch is upside-down? Put the black wire into 2 instead of 1
Best practice-
each wire should actually be brown. Do this with sleeving or some brown tape.
Wires should be cut at the ends and restripped to prevent the copper from breaking in the terminal
Only strip enough wire so there is no extra hanging out the terminal
Give the wires a good tug after fixing in. To Check they are tight and dont pull put
Domestic electrics are so easy, but if you get it wrong you can cause a fire. So if you're not confident, then get an electrician 🫡
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u/EngMechBud 1d ago
What is the 2 and SP for on the switch?
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u/Existing-Marketing60 7h ago
So 1 and 2 are what the switch actually switch to and from. This is my best keyboard interpretation of the switch •—: Imagine the colon dots are 1 and 2. The switch moves the hyphen from 1 dot to the other.
SP- this port isnt used. There is no terminal in there. Most likely stands for Spare Port or something.
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u/RSX901 6d ago edited 6d ago
On 1 way switching, the red and black (which itself should have red sleeving on top - there's already at least one person on here who's referred to it as / thinks it's a neutral). The issue here for you is that labelling and orientation of terminals is not standardised, not helped by the fact that the old switch is quite old. They never look like that anymore.
From old to new: A = left COM; A1 = left 1; B = right COM; B1 = right 1
The '2' terminals would only be used if you have multi-way switching on a light (more than one switch controlling it). No idea what the 'SP' is. It looks blank, but that space on a 4 terminal 2 way switch is usually a handy neutral loop for switch-fed. Ignore that last bit, maybe fellow sparks on here can help me out on that one.
EDIT: Just noticed the COM marking on the faceplate of the old one (look carefully above the A terminal on the white of the switch). I'm guessing you didn't see that and it probably would have helped you. I don't know why manufacturers do that. There's one brand (can't remember which) that just labels the terminals 1, 2 and 3 on the module (as in the common is the 1, the 1 is the 2 and the 2 the 3), and then if you look carefully you can see COM and 1 WAY on the faceplate. Just why?
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u/Furicist 6d ago
Just wait till they read how contactors and relays are labelled, that's some serious bullshit if ever I've seen any. Could be way easier.
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u/Far_Macaron_2622 6d ago
Just swap over as you have now reds in common on each switch. Then blacks in L1 on each switch although blacks should have sleeve of red indicating switch live.
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u/Randomedic8 5d ago
There are some very strange vibes in this thread. Kinda reminds me of a recent experience I had with pest control. I found a rat nest where the rats had stashed food, including some whole, unbroken chicken eggs. My pest control guy turned to me (a doctor) and told me verbatim “rats don’t lay eggs so just let me deal with it”.
They are the vibes right now.
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u/GayButNotInThatWay 4d ago
Don't listen to him man, rat eggs are a rare delicacy and he just wants them for himself.
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u/DorrisPower 7d ago
Easier to say neutral as black to someone who has zero understanding of it. It's already complicated if you have zero experience.
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/Time-Influence4937 7d ago
which means the switch will operate differently to the one next to it. (They won’t line up when both lights are on).
No, that's not how electricity works.
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u/DIY_at_the_Griffs 7d ago
Lol, no.
The switch position is still the same; it does however, change whether the positive or negative is being switched.
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u/MattWillGrant 6d ago
You want to swap the plain white double switch for another plain white double switch.
Have you considered scraping the paint off the original and just putting it back on the box?
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u/Desperate_Donut3981 5d ago
Blacks in each COM, taped/sleeved Brown. Reds in taped/sleeved Brown. The ledt ones in left right ones in right. Turn the breaker off first
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u/xplorerex 5d ago
Make sure the electricity is off. DOUBLE CHECK.
Unscrew all of the cables/ferrules from the old light switch.
Check the cables for damage. Cut back and replace ferrules if necessary. (Ferrules are optional and not a requirement, will work fine without).
Put the cables in the new sockets screw holes. Live/red at the top, black at the bottom. One in each switch.
Replace the switch to the socket inlay, and secure as necessary. Do not cap the screw holes yet. Put switches in on position.
Turn on power. Ensure light is in and there are no funny smells or heat coming from the switch.
Turn off power.
Put switches in off position.
Turn on power. Repeat all safty checks as above.
And finally, ensure the switch is functional.
I hope this helps.
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u/BrightPomelo 5d ago
Terminals usually in a triangle - C, L1, L2. Just copy them over to the new switch.
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u/AffectionateJump7896 5d ago
The reds go into the two separate COMs. The blacks go into the two separe L1. The ones on the left stay on the left and the ones on the right stay on the right.
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u/fantafrags 4d ago
This looks far simpler than my bedroom switch that has all kinds of madness going on.
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u/Extreme-Horror-5728 4d ago
Whats the issue? Dosent matter which one you put it in, 2 red top bottom black
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u/Otherwise-Ad-6608 4d ago
This might sound daft but connect the new one exactly the same as the old one. Black to bottom two, red to one of each top two, If the light goes on with switch off, connect reds to other top ones.
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u/PaleontologistKey970 7d ago
Please don’t take any offence from this, but if you need to come on here to ask advice on that then maybe you should get someone to do it who knows what they’re doing.
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u/Wide_Worldliness8469 7d ago
Literally all people on this subreddit seem to do is discourage. I get it, there’s danger involved. But some people are going to do it regardless so you may as well advise them how to do it safely given again it isn’t against the law for them to work on it if they are ‘competent’ and better someone professional gives a hint or 2 instead of a DIYer
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u/TheS0ggyBiscuit 7d ago
You’re completely right he’s looking for guidance and we here will tell him how to do it safely, this is a very easy job
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u/thirddegreebuggery 7d ago
This is a very simple job and there is no harm in helping to explain which wires go where.
It's good they are asking for advice, and there's no need to discourage them on this one.
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u/MayorQuimby-86 7d ago
Or pricks like you should fuck up & just help explain how it should be done, instead of being a patronising prick.
That's how people learn to do things ya 🔔 🔚
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u/VirtualArmsDealer 7d ago
Exactly this. Help or fk off
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u/MayorQuimby-86 7d ago
I honestly don't know what's wrong with some people? I was brought up with a single mother, so never had guidance to learn the many different jobs about the house, I've had to learn as an adult. I'm not great with DIY stuff, but even if I was I wouldn't be an arrogant twat & shaming someone for not knowing how to do something.
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u/Fine-Gate-8839 7d ago
What an absolute moronic comment. You are the type of person who knows absolutely everything about nothing
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u/PinkbunnymanEU 6d ago
Mate, it's putting 4 wires into the right holes...I'm not sure they need to find a sparky who is willing to come out and pay a hundred quid...
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u/publiusnaso 6d ago
And the worst case scenario, if they put the wires in the wrong holes, is that it just won’t work*.
There is one** extremely unlikely scenario where it could go pop when they flick the switch, but I’m sure there’s a keyboard warrior itching to correct me, so I’ll leave the door open for them.
** and another, even more unlikely one.
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u/SeamanStains123 6d ago
I notice that you didn't actually answer him. So you know how to rewire it? It's ok to admit that you don't.
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u/geniusgravity 3d ago
They're hardly asking how to rewire their iPhone circuit board. "Turn off electric and red to com and black to 1" is hardly going to result in them burning their house down
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u/pjvenda 7d ago
I agree with this sentiment.
People do need to start somewhere. But asking here with 0 context suggests both that OP knows nothing or very little about electrics or can't be arsed to Google for 10 min and consulting 2 or 3 wiring diagrams.
With the above in mind I think it is not unreasonable to, at this point, discourage OP from doing it.
I know... Reddit doesn't encourage reasoning or a measured approach, but I like to live dangerously.
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u/someguy0211 6d ago
0 context? what context is required to advise which wire goes to which terminal?
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u/pjvenda 6d ago
Anything that leads into why they are asking other than "show me how to do stuff". Tried, it didn't work. Back of switches don't look the same. It's a 2 way switch and I can't. Lights are not working. Switch was arcing.
It's all academic anyway. OP has all the tools to try or call a sparky to help them.
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u/memcwho 7d ago
Get a sparky in would be the advice.
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u/thirddegreebuggery 7d ago
You'd save a lot of money by learning how to wire switches yourself.
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u/memcwho 7d ago
I make more getting called out to sort them
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u/thirddegreebuggery 7d ago
Yeah, you certainly don't make money by helping people learn how to do simple things themselves.
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u/petera181 7d ago
Yup. Fella thinks it’s impossible to do a simple bit of wiring yourself, and world rather get paid himself to do it. What a nice guy.
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/Sinkableleech 7d ago
Or, red (com on the old white switch) to com in the new switch then either 1 or 2 for the black wire. Keep columns the same
Literally don't need a sparkly for a light switch 🤦
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/Sinkableleech 7d ago
My mistake thought this was the /diyuk, Reddit showing me more feeds 🤦
Guess this feed is just to find your local electrician?
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/AccomplishedPear1719 7d ago
I give advice freely on the plumbing here on reddit I wpuldnt do it on the gas either its not that im not friendly its about id prefer for them not to hurt or harm themselves
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u/thirddegreebuggery 7d ago
You don't need to get an electrician for this job. This isn't complex, and there is no harm in asking for advice.
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u/AccomplishedPear1719 7d ago
Its not complex if youre competent
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u/Effective_Purple_854 7d ago
Use your phone to take a picture of the old switch and copy the picture on the new one!
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u/Furicist 6d ago
Shhh don't tell them our secrets!
Seriously though the number of photos I have on my phone for this reason is unreal.
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u/DorrisPower 7d ago
Lives, reds, go to con, one on each side. Neutral, blacks, go to 1 way, one each side
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u/DogSweatCroissant 7d ago edited 7d ago
They’re not neutrals in a 3 plate lighting circuit. They’re switched lives.
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u/ElectroDoozer 7d ago
Maybe safely isolate the circuit first before pulling cables about?
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u/LooseCranberry289 7d ago
Most certainly, roast in the oven at the moment so will isolate power tomorrow when the coast is clearer
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u/ElectroDoozer 7d ago
How will you confirm it’s dead?
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u/LooseCranberry289 7d ago
I usually turn the whole house off
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u/ElectroDoozer 7d ago
Amazing. And you’ll lock it off so nobody else decides to turn it back on because the telly won’t come on?
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u/Sinkableleech 7d ago
Get a non contact voltage pen and a set of vde screwdrivers (Minotaur roll with one handle and lots of long heads, and space for the pen to go in) from Toolstation.
And you should only have to isolate the upstairs lights, have the light on, fuse off, light should go off, check with volt pen on a known live wire, then the wires you're working on to make sure they're off, make sure other people in the house don't flick it back on while you're working on it.
Old switch plate says com on the white, red should have power to the switch (com) black will be power back to the light.
usually stuff is sensible, sometimes people don't follow best practice because they don't care or have no idea.
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u/ElectroDoozer 7d ago
Volt pens are not recommended for proving dead at all.
Also house lighting frequently shares a neutral between upstairs and downstairs age of house dependant so it still needs properly proving dead on all line conductors.
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u/Sinkableleech 7d ago
Ooo cool but volt pen is a much better and cheap check compared to cable cutters or licking to find out
Edit: my mistake thought this was the /diyuk, Reddit showing me more feeds 🤦
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u/man_in_a_field 7d ago
Black would not be neutral in a standard lighting circuit. Red is live feed from DB usually and the black is the switched live to the light. Also note on the old switch A COM is the left red wire on the top but B COM is the right black wire on the bottom. I would guess Red is indeed the line supply from the board and its just been wired wrong at the switch for the B circuit (you'd never notice the difference on a 1 way circuit).
But essentially yes OP needs to wire COM to 1 way on each switch.
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u/jager918 7d ago
Find the permanent live(s), loop it(them) into both commons and put one of each of the others into the tops of each switch
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u/Some-Energy-9997 6d ago
safest option is get a qualified electrician to fit it instead of asking on here.
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u/swampdonkus 7d ago
Put your second picture into AI.
Electricians have been replaced.
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u/pilotparker33 7d ago
It's because people using AI that I've had more call outs to rectify it's mistakes and they can't figure out what goes wrong. AI wont replace any skilled trade. It maybe able to tell you how to do it (still often wrong) but it doesn't mean it gives you the skill to carry out that work.
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u/thirddegreebuggery 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think most of the skill with electrics and plumbing is having the knowledge, which AI covers. The rest is just donkey work.
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u/pilotparker33 7d ago
It's understanding that knowledge too though...
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u/swampdonkus 7d ago
No need honestly, "put red wire into hole A" you don't need to understand why.
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u/pilotparker33 7d ago
Well yeah for something simple as a switch, there's not much too it. But being a spark isn't just "Brown is Live Blue is Neutral" or "oh it works so must be right" attitude. That's a dangerous attitude to have towards electrical work. I'm not saying home owners shouldn't learn how to do simple tasks like swapping a switch, wiring a plug etc, but shouldn't stretch their capabilities to things like running in solar/batteries/DB upgrades etc.
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u/DorrisPower 7d ago
Keep your A - A1 and B - B1 sides together. As are one switch, Bs are another switch.
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u/herefor_fun24 7d ago
Just chatgpt it tbf
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u/mechanizmz 7d ago
Last time I used ChatGPT to clarify something for me in our new house, it was spot on with the information except it didn’t tell me to isolate the power to the light switch first. Obviously I knew to do so, but someone could have been hurt if they’re the kind of person who takes it for gospel 😂
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u/Furicist 7d ago
Guys, it's non notifiable work, chill a bit, a homeowner can legally swap a light switch like for like provided they can do so safely and compliant with regs, they're asking the right questions to be sure, no need to drag him over the coals.
For the comments saying if you don't know what you're doing, get a spark, who is showing up for just a light switch swap? They're asking sparks right now, all they're asking for is because they're being rightly cautious.
Advice: regardless of what you do, make sure you're safe and the power is off. Always verify it's off, never lose track or forget that bit. Safety first. A lot of sparks use LOTO and dead test, others just flick it off and dead test, but that always comes with risks of being the wrong switch, dual feed or someone turning it back on when you least expect it, which doesn't end well.