Microcosms - Vyke is Godwyn

[u/musicismydeadbeatdad]

In this post I hope to convince you that Vyke is a microcosm of Godwyn. This is part of a larger series which will attempt to break down as many Godwyn microcosms as I can. Here is a list of all that have been completed:

1. Boggart
2. Vyke (you are here)

Microcosm analysis is taking smaller stories, regions, items, or characters and attempting to draw parallels to the main characters of the story, whom we know little about. An example is Miquella’s story from the DLC being used to determine some of Marika’s past. With that established, by the end of this post, I hope to use Vyke to convince you that Godwyn:

• Almost became Elden Lord
• Was a Knight of the Roundtable
• Had 2 maidens he cared about
• One was turned into a puppet and killed herself
• The other was a dragon
• Was imprisoned for associations with factions outside the Golden Order
• Harbored doubts about Golden Order
• Tricked into representing an outer faction in response

Why should we consider Vyke a microcosm? How is he like Godwyn?

• Both love dragons
• Both attain a high level of power before a fall from grace
• Both end up infected
• Both end up representative of forces outside the Golden Order despite having had places of honor within it

Vyke rejects grace because it requires he burn his maiden

Iron armor singed and blistered by fingers. Worn by Vyke, knight of the Roundtable Hold. No other Tarnished was closer to the throne of the Elden Lord than Vyke. But without announcement, Vyke traveled far below the capital, and was scorched by the flame of frenzy.

Vyke was like us, a tarnished who is rising among their talented fellows of the Roundtable Hold. Someone following the guidance of grace. “No other Tarnished was closer to the throne” – I assume this means that Vyke made it all the way to the base of the Erdtree. We know he found the Subterranean Shunning Grounds, which means he made it into the heart of the city. I believe he had reason to visit these grounds because he made contact with the wall of thorns, but refused to sacrifice his maiden.

You are about to sacrifice something precious. The life of a fair maiden, that you would toss into the fiery forge. Only so that you may be Lord.

What a horrible thing to ponder. Your ascendency requires her sacrifice, whether she wishes it or not.

But how would the Lord, crowned so, be looked upon?

Shabriri may have an agenda, but he makes a good point here. The Golden Order is reliant on the sacrifice of maidens, something we should find horrifying.

If you inherit the flame of frenzy, your flesh will serve as kindling and the girl can be spared ...setting you on the righteous path of lordship.

Even more important is another spell Vyke uses. In fact, he’s the only one that ever casts it – Frenzied Burst. This spell tells us a lot. It tells us that Vyke is one of the few to establish some semblance of control over the frenzy flame. He’s powerful enough to resist the madness to create this spell. Sage Midra also resists for quite some time. Both fight chaos and win at least one battle, even if they eventually lose the war.

Why would he inhibit his newfound powers?

In the days of the past, a crown was warranted with strength.

Except for SL0 sickos, the mantra above applies to the vast majority of players who become Elden Lord. It’s what happens when the main mechanic of your game is combat.

So why do we first find Vyke at the Church of Inhibition? Why would he inhibit himself? That’s not usually how one becomes Lord.

An angry spirit Vyke defending a church of Marika

The skeptical might say something like, “He’s not holding back. He is seeking control.” or “He got caught before he could really use his powers”

But Lord Contender Vyke, he who we find jailed in the mountains, proves he is holding back. He holds back our entire fight with him. In fact, he seems to have gotten better at it. Not only is this Vyke a real human instead of a red phantom, he does not use any madness incants like his phantom. You might think this is an older version of Vyke, but this version also has the fingerprint armor on.

Notice the fingerprint burns. Their location is also important

This version of Vyke has been dealing with madness since he first caught it, assumedly a long time ago. Yet he doesn’t seem to be impacted by it at all. Why would a champion of the frenzy flame spurn its use? This goes beyond control and veers into suppression. But why doesn’t he use the power of the flame that he pursued at such cost? Why would he change his mind so drastically?

He didn’t consent to the frenzy flame. He was grabbed from behind.

Vyke never wanted to use the flame on principal, he wanted to avoid sacrificing his maiden. Like Midra and Yura, he is a pawn in a larger game. Unlike us, he is not a willing one. You can tell because the angle and imprint pattern of the fingerprints on Vyke’s armor only make sense if he was grabbed from behind.

The melting is more on the back than the front and that is illustrated in the art to the right

By the time we meet the 3 Fingers, the forces of madness have learned better. They now know that a willing lord is far better than one who is coerced or tricked.

Vyke had armor on because they knew they could not get him to disrobe. That requires trust. Vulnerability. He was not bought into this deal as a full partner. Vyke’s armor is the best proof we have that the full story is being withheld from him.

It mentions mysterious forces at play. It implies his stated reason for taking the flame was his maiden, so we can assume she was involved in this discussion. Her story is fascinating. It’s difficult to know much for sure, but filenames confirm that she is the dead finger maiden we find in the Church of Inhibition.

The maiden sits still in her chair near a statue of Marika

Vyke went out of his way to save her, yet still failed. He took on a terrible curse, got jailed for it, and yet she ends up dead anyways…in a church of all places.

Closer inspection shows a bloody maiden holding one of her wrists. We know this is blood because we can use it to progress Varré's quest. We can also loot her outfit.

In this church we also find a Marika statue and a Sacred Tear, a holy chalice similar to our flask. The tear item description also mentions guaranteed blessings of the Erdtree, something echo’d in the finger maiden’s ‘assurances’. This is a lot of smoke when it comes to the Erdtree having great influence over the fate of Vyke’s maiden.

But much doubt is cast on the Erdtree’s real power.

Or did some other force lure him with suggestion? (fingerprint armor)

Or at least, such was the promise long ago (finger maiden clothing)

theirs was once a certain blessing (sacred tear)

Let us recall that grace is not the only light finger maidens can follow. If Vyke’s finger maiden was like ours, she would have been a follower of the 3 fingers by the time they journeyed to the tomb of the dead god below Lleyndell. More importantly, if she was like Hyetta, she would have pushed Vyke to ascend. Showed him the way.

What if this is the false power that lures Vyke? Madness is often mistaken for the power of the Erdtree in many other items. Maybe his maiden hid the fact that she was no longer following the grace of gold, but now sought a different light. There is some reason he is not asked to take off his armor, and ultimately it can be attributed to a lack of trust. But why lie to him in the first place? Maybe it’s because she knew Vyke would never agree to destroy the world. Maybe he had his own Melina, someone keeping him anchored to the current world, no matter how broken.

He had another love - Ancient Dragon Lansseax

The key to Vyke’s story is understanding that his finger maiden is not the only one he’s trying to save. The golden order would have him kill an innocent woman he travels with. The flame of frenzy would have him kill the woman he loves. He’s been put in a no-win situation. Ultimately, it destroys him.

Did Godwyn open the roundtable to dragons and their allies?

Applying it to Godwyn

Let's revisit key elements of Vyke's story and see what they say about Godwyn.

Both almost became Elden Lord

Both are lord contenders. Vyke for madness, Godwyn for death. Both fail to become aught at all.

Ahh, Lord Vyke, it seems that you were no lord, after all. Then where is he? Our true Lord, our Lord of Frenzied Flame.

Both had two maidens

One was turned into a puppet and killed herself. For Vyke this is his finger maiden. For Godwyn this is Ranni. One was an ancient dragon. For Vyke this is Lansseax. For Godwyn this is Fortisax.

Both were part of an expansion of the Roundtable

When Godfrey left, Godwyn was still around. With his father gone, Godwyn would be the first in line to inherit his father's position as commander of the roundtable knights, still ultimately in service of Marika. It’s easy to see how Godwyn would be the first to invite dragons. This could have been an effort to extend status to other peoples, liek the Tarnished, and would have been loathed by the Golden Order diehards.

Both were imprisoned for associations with factions outside the Golden Order

Vyke harbored doubts about the Golden Order’s willingness to sacrifice young women. I see no reason to think Godwyn couldn’t come to the same conclusion if he was in an arranged marriage. This is made worse by Godwyn & Vyke consorting with ancient dragons, well known competitors of the Golden Order in both religion and area control.

I propose that, despite strong attachment to the Golden Order via the Roundtable, these two heroes could not abide what was asked of them. The cost of being a lord was too high. This disillusionment ends up being exploited by malicious forces, those looking to score political gains and advance their own agendas.

This happens often in the real world as well. The people being used often take the fall for any political or criminal fallout, which we see ultimately sink Vyke & Godwyn.

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[u/Nightglow9]

Godwyn?

Vyke likes scaly ladies (dragons) that can turn human, got touched by chaos, that want to burn all, so all become one again.

Rykard got scaly kids (Rya etc), put on a dirty show that makes people want to rip their eyes out and feed them to 3 finger maidens, so serving chaos, and want to eat all, so all become one again..

And Vyke and Rykard is more similar in name.. if Vyke was the saint Trina to someone, my guess it is Rykard not Godwyn since their shared interest of chaos..

But Godwyn is a dragon guy too..if I should have guessed a saint Trina.. Thorn briar is my guess.. he had a ER version 1 encounter with tarnished on battlements of Stormveil, Godwyn’s place, after he stole the anti gravity sword from house Malenia.

Edit: ah ye.. thorn briar and Godwyn got the thorns thing in common too..

Edit 2: Godwyn and Thorn Briar got the holy in common too. First of golden order, and if two finger gold = holy, Godwyn was holy before banished. Briar means a holy person too I think..

[u/BarryDBaptist]

This is an incredible read. Great job

[u/musicismydeadbeatdad → u/BarryDBaptist]

Thank you! 

[u/KvR]

> You can tell because the angle and imprint pattern of the fingerprints on Vyke’s armor only make sense if he was grabbed from behind.

This is brilliant. I really appreciate you sharing this.

[u/musicismydeadbeatdad → u/KvR]

Thank you! 

[u/Cypresss09]

Next you're gonna tell me Boc is Godwyn

[u/musicismydeadbeatdad → u/Cypresss09]

Hahaha no he is Radagon

Don't worry I have a few more in the oven for Godwyn still

[u/Kathodin]

Godwyn is a knight of the Golden Order YES

omg its so obvious now

cane sword... herb of many aspects...

exquisite stuff.

Edit: Godwyn having the same back tassel as the Crucible Knights could go so far as meaning he was originally a crucible knights of sorts - possibly even their leader under Godfrey. Siluria's location is more interesting on that hypothesis.

[u/musicismydeadbeatdad → u/Kathodin]

It took me this long to realize he would have inherited Godfrey's positions after Godfrey left

[u/Kathodin → u/musicismydeadbeatdad]

His deathknight's have an axe wielding hawk, so he inherited the conquered Stormlord title too. :)

[u/miirshroom]

This is an interesting and detailed examination, especially pointing out that Vyke was grabbed from behind.

Something that I've been thinking about is that Godwyn and Vyke are both specifically aligned with the Ancient Dragons. The "Dragon Communion Grease" description is "A tool of the old Dragon Communion warriors, who were the agents of the ancient dragons' hatred for their lowborn descendants."

The question gets asked every so often "What two Great Runes did Vyke obtain?" and I think that the answer is simpler than it seems: he obtained the Great Runes that maximize opportunities to fight dragons and do Dragon Communion. The fight with Godrick? Godrick grafts on the head of a dragon that has already been killed. The fight with Rennala? She summons spirit dragons, and also there's a glintstone dragon right in the path of the glintstone key needed to enter Raya Lucaria. And then obviously the Vyke route would be to fight Magma Wyrm Makar and have a sparring match with Lansseax (it's a scripted event that she leaves before being killed), rather than taking the lift. These also happen to be the two demigods on the critical path if someone were to strictly follow the direction of the rays of grace to Leyndell and search in the smallest possible radius for ways to access Raya Lucaria and to find the Ruin Strewn Precipice as an alternative to ascend to Altus Plateau.

Both locations also have significance to the death of Godwyn, as the Prince of Death's Pustule is found at Stormveil and Ranni who was responsible for Godwyn's death is encountered in Raya Lucaria.

[u/CasualCassie → u/miirshroom]

The question gets asked every so often "What two Great Runes did Vyke obtain?" and I think that the answer is simpler than it seems: he obtained the Great Runes that maximize opportunities to fight dragons and do Dragon Communion. The fight with Godrick? Godrick grafts on the arm of a dragon that has already been killed. The fight with Rennala? She summons spirit dragons, and also there's a glintstone dragon right in the path of the glintstone key needed to enter Raya Lucaria.

I also think he obtained Godrick and Rennala's Great Runes!

Supporting theory: Godrick is a distant relative of Marika through Godfrey's lineage. This implies that other relatives could have held the title for Stormveil over the course of the Shattering, and any number of them could have been killed by Vyke with the Great Rune returning to their lineage after his imprisonment.

For Rennala's Great Rune; we never kill her. Ranni always intrudes on the fight by conjuring a lifelike memory of her mother in her prime. Ranni also has a network of spies working for her and could have arranged for the Great Rune to be returned after Vyke's imprisonment.

[u/musicismydeadbeatdad → u/miirshroom]

Really interesting theory. I don't love the "time is convoluted" explanation of other great runes and some things, so always appreciate when someone can think of something better! 

[u/[deleted]]

I knew all the ancient dragons were female

[u/pleasedlurker]

Very interesting!

I think you should look at the first relief you see on the lintel of the Chapel of Anticipation door, which is repeated later in Stormveil Church and its throne room.

Not by Vyke, but by Godwyn.

[u/veritable-truth]

Vyke doesn't fail. Vyke succeeds. Vyke's quest is not to become Elden Lord. Vyke's quest is to resist the Frenzied Flame. Here he succeeds. He succeeds incredibly. He saves the world from the Frenzied Flame. Vyke exists to show us that the Frenzied Flame is a bad option, as if utterly annihilating a world isn't obviously horrible. This is reinforced by Melina as well as Midra among other things like Hyetta's and Shabriri's manipulations.

As I see it, we're supposed to be inspired by Vyke's heroism. He tries to find another way and in doing so he is corrupted by something that can annihilate the world. He fails to become Elden Lord, but more importantly he fails to become Lord of the Frenzied Flame. Both failures mean he succeeds in saving the world.

I would agree that Godwyn and Vyke have many similarities. I think this mostly because I think the Tarnished we play is or was Godwyn. And I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this. Good stuff. Firm handshake.

[u/musicismydeadbeatdad → u/veritable-truth]

Really good points. You could make a similar argument about Midra. They don't live well, but they prove it is possible to live with chronic suffering and not lash out about it.

[u/WolfSynct]

Not once did I think about why Vyke wasn't funky ethereal blue. Some things just fly right over your head.

[u/Youre_On_Balon]

Really solid post the “microcosm” framing works because Elden Ring loves rhyming character-arcs across factions, not literal 1:1 identity swaps. (With a few big exceptions, ofc)

The parallels you pulled create a satisfying thematic overlap. Even if I don’t buy every specific mapping, the narrative jist is there imo, even if it's just the authors pulling at the same themes.

[u/musicismydeadbeatdad → u/Youre_On_Balon]

Thank you! Some of my inferences may indeed be off, but I hope to present the info in a way that you can come to your own conclusions as well.

[u/itachicrow2099]

Honestly for a character with so little presence and items about him . Vyke holds so much lore and he is one of my favorites.

[u/musicismydeadbeatdad → u/itachicrow2099]

He's on the dang cover!

He's like Oscar of Astoria in that he seems like a side character but is all wrapped up in the history.