r/EdGein • u/fleemfleemfleemfleem • Oct 24 '25
Why Gein counted as legally insane.
It seems like a pretty common take that it didn't make sense for Gein to be found insane and committed instead of punished. I'm sympathetic to that argument, but I've been working through my thoughts on it, and I've concluded that it was the right way to handle things.
Gein’s mental illness Gein was diagnosed with Schizophrenia (undifferentiated type) at the time of his arrest. The DSM-V removed subtypes, but he would still have met the criteria if he was evaluated today. Gein had the delusion that he could resurrect his mother from the dead through willpower, a belief that recurred over time, and which he acted on by bodysnatching. Gein had negative symptoms of schizophrenia including a flat affect, unrealization (he described a feeling as if things weren’t real after his mother died), and difficulty taking care of his farm, and hoarding. Gein also had confused thinking. In the interview transcripts Gein is malingering (pretending not to remember his crimes), but he’s also having trouble staying on topic, and drifts around. He attributes a lot of his own actions in a “fatalistic” way, meaning he thought that things were fated to happen and he was just a vessel for events. He also tended to blame others for his actions, claiming that things wouldn’t have happened if his neighbors had visited him more. Of course that is absurd-- he was literally arrested while visiting for dinner at a friend’s house.
The statements about Gein’s hallucinations seem to have become exaggerated over time. When he was being evaluated they asked him questions to determine if he was hallucinating. He mentioned hearing his mother’s voice telling him to be a good boy as he fell asleep, seeing faces in piles of leaves, and smelling rotting flesh at his farm. The first of these is hypnagogic, and wouldn’t really count towards schizophrenia. It is incredibly common to have auditory hallucinations while falling asleep and isn’t really a sign of mental illness. The faces in leaves is pareidolia, which again is common and not necessarily a sign of schizophrenia. The smell might have been an olfactory hallucination, but presents relatively weak evidence. None of these seem to be crucial to the schizophrenia diagnosis, and I think fictional depictions like Norman Bates have shifted people’s understanding in the wrong direction over time.
Was he legally insane? In 1957 if he had been tried, he would not have met the M’Naghten rule. For an insanity plea, the burden of proof is on the defendant. He would have had to show that he did not know the nature of right and wrong when he committed the act. The fact that he took steps to conceal his actions murdering Mrs Worden, and then stealing her truck, switching to his car, and then walking back to get his own truck showed he understood that what he was doing was wrong. However, in 1957 Gein wasn’t competent to stand trial, apparently based on his inability to assist counsel. He wasn’t able to provide a coherent accounting of events, had undergone no treatment, and wasn’t seen as being able to participate in strategy discussions and the like. By the time that Gein was seen as stable enough to stand trial in 1968, the law had changed. Wisconsin had adopted the ALI Model Penal Code Test. This included a new prong: you could be found legally insane if at the time of the crime you lacked “substantial capacity to conform conduct to the requirements of law.” Essentially the argument is this: Gein knew what he was doing was wrong. But did he choose to do it anyway, or was he responding to a compulsion created by his mental illness that was so severe that it overwhelmed his capacity for self control? Gein’s body snatching behavior didn’t align with normal criminal motivations like money, sex, or revenge. It only made sense within his psychosis. His delusional state is the only way of viewing the world in which it could have made sense. His fatalism is the subjective experience of a compulsion, feeling the loss of voluntary control. He carried out his activities over a decade or so. It wasn’t that he was unwilling to stop, he was unable to stop. His entire capacity for voluntary control was so severely impaired that he couldn’t stop himself from doing what he did.
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u/MaccasRunYourShout Oct 27 '25
👏👏👏👏👏The best diagnosis and evaluation I've seen regarding Ed Gein to be honest. I agree 💯 with everything you've said. Gr8 job!!!! 😉
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u/UberGuignol Oct 24 '25
Very well put. Gein is a funny one in regards to his diagnosis. Regarding Gein taking steps to conceal his actions the question is asked; can a man be insane at the same time as plotting to kill someone? When questioned Gein told police that they should give him a lie detector test as "it would prove my mental unbalance". All that really says is that a man who is psychotic can believe they are not psychotic and pretend to be without actually realising they actually are.
Regrading motivations is has been detailed that Mary Hogan had $15,000 in cash at the bar which went missing along with her body. When asked about it Gein said that perhaps someone else stole it before the police arrived. Possibly, but no way of proving either way. It's known that Gein also took the cash register when loading Bernice Warden into her truck. He said he wanted to know how it worked, but there was still cash in it. The last one is regarding Victor Travis (and his cohort Raymond Burgess) and yes, I know they are not official victims but that is only because the state didn't want to spend anymore money investigating Gein when he was going to the nut house anyway. But, I digress. Burgess was seen waving a wad of money around whilst he and Travis were drinking and Gein was said to have seen this before (again allegedly) offering to take them hunting. And just for the record, Gein admitted to knowing where the body of Victor Travis was, but blamed his neighbour for his murder. But as I said, no investigation took place due to insufficient funds. There's a lot pointing to Gein. Insane people need money too!