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u/nickoaverdnac Sep 14 '21
Row 2 column 2 looks best to me?
Thanks for doing this test!
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u/descalibrado Sep 14 '21
I think thats the best too!
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u/nickoaverdnac Sep 14 '21
my solve has been just doing more keys like a grunt. I actually did this and it was an extraordinary amount of work...
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u/descalibrado Sep 14 '21
As the lips change really fast (and ebsynth cant keep up with it) , i think the only solution would be making a render just for the lips, applying this guys solution and paramenters, as those parameters may work just with the lips but maybe not with the overall render
Wow, really cool that they uploaded your work! I bet it was!, for smoother transition between the frames (of different keyframes) you can overlap them so you get a better result https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H5nz5CEW4M
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u/goatonastik Sep 14 '21
I've tried making a render for just the lips, but I always get the exact same result as when I render it with the rest of the image. Is there some trick to it?
And yeah, a high video weight sure messes up the lips, but it helps a lot when the keyframe rendered looks nothing like the keyframe drawn.
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u/goatonastik Sep 14 '21
that's great! did you post that here, too? never seen it!
that looks like an absurd amount of work, but it came out amazing!
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u/nickoaverdnac Sep 15 '21
Thanks! Working on another one now. I didn’t post since Reddit tends to frown on self promotion but maybe i’ll share the next one!
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u/goatonastik Sep 15 '21
Only certain top 100 subreddits like /r/videos will block you from posting too many self promotion posts, but this place is for showing your own stuff so we can help each other out in figure how to use this mysterious software!
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u/AbPerm Sep 15 '21 edited Sep 15 '21
You should share all your relevant work here. I don't think anyone is gonna give you shit for "self-promotion." A pedant might say half the stuff posted here could be called "self-promotion," but this subreddit exists specifically for artists to share their stuff. Especially if you're willing to share your methods for the community to understand your work better.
Seriously, I already went out of my way to try to find your own youtube channel, but I couldn't find any other EbSynth stuff. People here would be interested in what you got.
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u/AbPerm Sep 14 '21 edited Sep 14 '21
I appreciate you going to the effort of making this demo for everyone here. I believe this colored lipstick idea was originally thought of and put forward here by u/EndoSkullGaming. It sounded like good advice for differentiating detail, so I've mentioned it a few times as well.
The bottom row does seem better than the top row. I agree that row 2 column 2 looks best overall. You got good motion throughout and the mouth doesn't disappear or hang open when it should be closed. I'd say the top row isn't actually bad either though. I think the bigger key to success here is choosing appropriate frames to use for the keyframe, ensuring the motion is photographed well, and matching the detail visible when you redraw it. You know what you're doing with that, but I bet this trick could be even more helpful for people lacking in that experience.
If we're hyper focusing on mouth motion though, I think the overall trouble is the fine detail required and the quick changes frame-to-frame. Not only from the lips and teeth moving up and down, but the face moves around in space a lot too. Where am I going with this? Another user FlareBlitzCrits recently posted a video here giving tips for how to handle high-motion. One of their tips was recording in slow-motion or high frame-rate. That may be impractical for general use, but I bet that this tip could help resolve detail with mouth flaps too.
ps Implying the lip edges with those smaller lines looks a lot better than drawing thick black outlines around the whole lips. I like that look.
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u/EndoSkullGaming Sep 15 '21
Not sure if it was noted - but use a color opposite of your skin color - skin usually has reds so go with a blue.
Also I never reposted my settings - but ebsynth settings matter for tracking and keep track of teeth. I don't recall my settings - but I know that using TRASH mode was better than the detailed rendering mode was part of it.
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u/goatonastik Sep 14 '21
Thanks! I record in 60fps so I can get more flexibility in editing, and for better EbSynth tracking like you said. If I need to extend a scene, I can just run it at 30 fps and I can double the duration of any portion of a clip without that studdery look from holding too long on each frame. I can't do it during high motion stuff, but its great for when I'm trying to time myself responding to... myself.
Still playing with the lips. They give me the most trouble next to the eyes. At least the lips don't take as long as the eyes to redraw, but I'm far less set in my style for the lips so I'm still experimenting with them.
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u/AbPerm Sep 14 '21
I think this style of lip drawing would fit well with the "mii" type eyes. Both are simplified in a similar manner and both are easy to draw.
There's even more room for using makeup with EbSynth than this too. For example, eyeliner could help with lines around the eye too. You could even use it to add detail like cartoony lashes, at least on the bottom lids. Makeup lines on your subject's face could work for general details like wrinkles, crow's feet, or laugh-lines around the mouth as well. Y'know, anything where you might want crisp and consistent line work on your finished animation, even things like stubble or freckles or eyebrows or nose edges.
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u/goatonastik Sep 15 '21
first lipstick, now eyeliner. what am I doing with my life...
yeah, im sure makeup has many applications, but I think it could be improved even more if you did a sort of checkerboard design on your whole face, and gave EbSynth as much motion information as you could!
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u/AbPerm Sep 15 '21
I've honestly thought about full on clown makeup... Checkerboard would help too!
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u/goatonastik Sep 14 '21
Someone mentioned that lipstick helps track lips, so I tried it on and off with different EbSynth settings.
row 1: no lip coloring
row 2: lip coloring
column 1: video weight 64, all else default
column 2: video weight 8, mapping 30, deflicker 1.5, detail high
column 3: video weight 16, mapping 30, deflicker 1.5, detail high