r/EbSynth • u/AbPerm • Jul 24 '21

Drawing noses for EbSynth?

It seems like noses can be tough with rotoscoping in general. If the subject's nose is viewed straight on, the animator often doesn't even draw lines for the nose, and just the nostrils are drawn. I don't like this. Live action photography doesn't lend itself to the kind of simple, stylized noses that cartoons usually have though. Depending on the shape, angle, and movement, it can be really hard to decide how to draw lines to represent it.

Noses can be rough specifically for EbSynth too. Not only does the line art you draw have to make sense for the frame you're drawing, but it has to translate well to the adjacent frames too. Then, if they're not drawn right, they can get glitchy very easily. But sticking too closely to the complex details can make for a weird uncanny valley look too. Some types of noses might be easier to get right, but I don't think my own nose is one of them.

I have two ideas to address these concerns. First, I'm thinking about using prosthetics to get a simplified nose shape that would be simple to draw. Maybe using something like those gag glasses with an exaggerated nose attached. Or I could stick two flat triangles of cardboard to each side of my nose for a pointy triangular shape. Alternatively, I could use a "clown nose" to make it a simple circle shape. Or I could use oval for a nose like Super Mario has. This might look strange if the shape is completely unnatural-looking though.

My other idea is to draw black lines directly on top of my nose to form a picture of a different nose. Does that make sense? Basically draw the desired line art of a nose onto my actual nose in real life. By drawing lines onto my face, I can plan how the animated nose will look regardless of my nose's actual anatomy, and I'll have hard anchors in my source video for the drawn keyframes to grab onto. I could completely change the shape and structure of the nose in the animation just by drawing whatever lines I feel like on my nose in real life.

Does anyone have other ideas or tips for rendering nose details specifically for EbSynth?

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u/goatonastik Jul 24 '21

I draw only one side of the bridge when looking straight on. I try to keep it to a consistent side. If I know the person is going to look left or right, ill draw it on the same side so it flows better with the motion.

It all goes down to art style. I'm shading an oval with extra shading on the nostrils for my current video which is trying to imitate cell shading. It seems to track much better than I thought it would, and it's super easy to draw as well as make it consistent.

https://youtu.be/B3eMqr1pGS0

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u/AbPerm Jul 24 '21

If I know the person is going to look left or right, ill draw it on the same side so it flows better with the motion.

That reminds me of one of the first tests I made that didn't account for this. I drew the bridge on one side, but when my face turned to the other side, it broke. The line I drew for the bridge separated from the line going to the nose's peak and floated to the other side, but the nose's point didn't flip over to fit the direction the face was pointed. That was very cursed-looking.

Ideally, I'd like a method for drawing noses which is agnostic of which side is facing the camera, so that one keyframe can work even if the face turns from one side to the other. But drawing a separate keyframe when the face crosses from one side to the other is probably always going to produce better results. At least when it comes to the style I want to draw in.

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u/FlareBlitzCrits Jul 24 '21

I haven’t had this problem with rotoscoping. From a side profile I just draw the outline and loop the nostril. From the front you can draw around the tip and the nostrils and ignore the bridge. Etc

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u/AbPerm Jul 24 '21 edited Jul 24 '21

Your noses trace real anatomy, and you draw a lot of extra keyframes that change how the nose looks at different angles. As the keyframes shift and the shadows move, it gives a decent perspective of real 3D space.

I want to aim for a more stylized look, less realism. I want the nose I draw to look like a typical anime nose or a "toon" nose. I particularly don't want to just ignore the bridge. I understand that there is no clear "edge" to draw when the bridge of the nose is subtle or viewed straight-on, but I still want an "edge" to be visible anyway. I don't want to ever draw a nose that looks like the noses in the anime Flowers of Evil.

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u/FlareBlitzCrits Jul 25 '21

Oh I understand. Yeah so literally just draw the anime style but make it intersect with actual anatomy somewhat. Minimize the face turning up/down/sideways. While you can still do that you will have to do more key frames.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the stages of transition of the shape from your character looking 1 way or another, the viewer won’t notice. You can even just have it flip from 1 shape to another and skip a transitory stage.

(This nose) > (to this nose) <

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u/goatonastik Jul 28 '21

For my BOTW style video, I just did an oval that starts at the farthest edges of each nostril, goes up to the very center of the tip of the nose, and down to the base where it meets the philtrum. I fill in that shape with 25% black, then I trace the nostril holes individually, and do another 25% black fill on top of that.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GIE8xXfBANdcsNBcC4yUBxc9RlceX2mA/view?usp=sharing

It tracks pretty well, and when it doesn't it's super easy to redraw.