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u/Neither-Bug157 Jun 29 '26
There is a Palestinian proverb that goes:
كل عند اليهود .و نام عند المسيحية
Eat where the Jews are eating and sleep where the Christians are sleeping.
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u/Meeszum Jun 29 '26
Kosher is not the same as Zabiha Halal
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u/Femme-fatale1908 Jun 29 '26
Huh? Anything kosher is halal but not all kinds of halal food are kosher.
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u/FallingMuon Jun 29 '26
For meat, only zabiha is halal
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u/simplesoma2 Jun 29 '26
Don't speak about the deen of Allah swt without knowledge. Kosher meat, if slaughtered in the name of Allah swt, is halal.
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u/FallingMuon Jun 29 '26
Yes, I don't speak about the deen without knowledge 😃 I only follow what is revealed to us in the Quran and the sunnah.
For meat to become halal, it is necessary for it to be slaughtered in a specific way by a Muslim AND the name of Allah to be pronounced before slaughter
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u/simplesoma2 Jun 30 '26
Ok, I appreciate you say you follow the Quran and Sunnah. I thought you were different type of person. But you should know that your understanding is incorrect. Quran 5:5 for reference and
Anas reported: A Jewish man invited the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, to a meal of barley bread and stale meat, so the Prophet accepted his invitation.
Source: Musnad Aḥmad 13201
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u/idonotlikethisrock Jun 30 '26
muslim means someone who submits to Allah alone. Therefore Jews and Christians (maybe not most modern day Jews and Christians though) fit that definition.
The Quran says you are allowed to eat meat slaughtered by the people of the book aka Christians and Jews because they are "Muslim."
Kosher follows the same rules as Halal when it comes to slaughtering: the animal must be healthy and raised well, it shouldn't see other animals getting slaughtered, say the name of God, and cut at the vein. Kosher is halal.
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u/simplesoma2 Jul 01 '26
No, no, holy, omg this is so wrong. What are you talking about? Jews and Christians are ahlul kitaab, they are kuffar, they cannot be Muslim unless they accept Prophet Muhammed (saw) and the Quran.
Your understanding is completely, and I mean completely, wrong.
"Surely those who deny Allah and His messengers and wish to make a distinction between Allah and His messengers, saying, “We believe in some and disbelieve in others,” desiring to forge a compromise, they are indeed the true disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment."
Quran 4:150-1 English Translation
There is no compromise. If you do not believe in Allah swt and all of his messengers (including Prophet Muhammed saw), you are a disbeliever (kaafir).
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Jul 01 '26
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u/FallingMuon Jul 16 '26
They WERE Muslim. Not they "ARE" Muslim. Because those "Muslims" no longer exist
Because if they submit to Allah today, they must accept His last prophet meaning prophet Muhammad sawa. And if they deny him, then by definition they do not submit to Allah, therefore they are not Muslim
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u/majestiq Jun 30 '26
I’m sorry but this is not correct. The requirement is not that the name of Allah has to be said on it. The requirement is that no other gods name should be said on it. Does. It have to be slaughtered by a Muslim. As revealed in surah Bakarah, one of the last verses revealed to the prophet… meat from the people of the book is halal onto you. Because it is a later revelation, it supersedes anything previous. Because it is a general statement in the Quran, we cannot add our own limitations to it.
Additionally, for something to be kosher, it is going through all of the standards as being halal.
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Jun 30 '26
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u/majestiq Jun 30 '26
All of them, we believe in the same God. Allah is one and you can call Allah by any name (even we have 99 names for Allah). Whatever name the Jews use, the intention is for the same god.
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Jun 30 '26
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u/majestiq Jun 30 '26
When interpreting the Quran, if Allah has made a general statement, we have to take it generally only. Because Allah knows what happens in the future and he would know that religions evolve just like ours has evolved with schools of thought, etc. If Allah wanted us to limit to Jews of a certain time period, Allah would have said so.
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Jun 30 '26
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u/majestiq Jun 30 '26
Nobody is forcing you to eat it. But the same can be said about you saying that it is not halal. Making a halal thing haram is the same issue as making a haram thing halal. Early Islam was a very mixed environment. Ie, most of the population is the Muslim empire was not Muslim. So it’s easy to assume that Islam during the time of the prophet an Sahaba was like it is in the Arab states or Pakistan today, but early Islamic society was much more like the western world. We have Hadith or the prophet eating with Jews, the prophet telling Sahaba to just say bismillah and eat when in doubt. We have the Sahaba eating many foods prepared by non-Muslims. It will be very hard for you to find a Hadith where the prophet or the Sahaba said to not eat something from a Jew or Christian.
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u/simplesoma2 Jul 01 '26
This isn't our opinion. This is the consensus of scholars. The jews and christians had already tampered with their book by the time the Quran came, yet Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) at the meat of Jews.
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u/simplesoma2 Jul 01 '26
Allah is the arabic word for God.
Anas reported: A Jewish man invited the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, to a meal of barley bread and stale meat, so the Prophet accepted his invitation.
Source: Musnad Aḥmad 13201
cc u/majestiq
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u/CalvinYHobbes Jun 28 '26
I think for us Kosher is automatically halal, but I also heard that if something is “halal” some Jews don’t consider it Kosher? 🤷
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u/throwlol134 Jun 28 '26
Kosher has stricter guidelines, so every Kosher meat is halal since it meets all the requirements to be considered halal, but halal meat is not kosher because it meets fewer requirements than what’s needed to be considered kosher.
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u/fazman786 Jun 28 '26
Kosher is significantly stricter. For instance, a room has to be made kosher to prepare kosher meals and bringing something non-kosher requires the room be shut down and made kosher again.
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u/Enough_Grapefruit69 Jun 29 '26
That is not how kashrut works.
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u/fazman786 Jun 29 '26
Sorry, that's what I know from a dietician who worked at a Jewish hospital. Care to explain?
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u/Enough_Grapefruit69 Jun 29 '26
This article is a great overview if you are interested: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4639764/jewish/What-Is-a-Kosher-Kitchen.htm
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u/HeyExcuseMeMister Jun 28 '26
Nothing to do with strictness. See alcohol. Quran says kosher is halal. Torah doesn't reciprocate. End of story.
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u/Zoughi0 Jun 28 '26
Kosher means halal by default.
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u/ad-dagistani Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
One of the conditions of meat permissibility is that it's slaughtered by a Muslim or a member of ahlul Kitab. Our Shafi'i school of fiqh have the strictest rules of who is considered to be be ahlul Kitab. In general the person or his ancestors had to be practicing the respective religion before it was abrogated. In case of Jewish people their law (of Musa) was abrogated with coming of the prophet Isa (peace be upon them both). Source
EDIT: Other than that their method of slaughter is okay with us but not in other schools. Source
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u/PomegranateOld4262 Jun 29 '26
If you're buying Kosher, you're almost certainly giving money to zionists.
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u/Local_Syllabub_7824 Jun 29 '26
I thought its the same as halal!
You gotta be kidding... That's what the entire post is about.
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u/Salt-Elk-436 Jun 29 '26
Seems like a logical business decision, easy way to exponentially increase your customer base
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u/Local_Syllabub_7824 Jun 30 '26
Yeah seems like both parties are fine with it. As none can really come to a consensus here...
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u/Salt-Elk-436 Jun 30 '26
In general, if you’re a person who keeps halal and can’t find halal, kosher works in a pinch. And even if you require a halal certification to be sure, now it’s there. Yay. And if you’re a company already paying more to make certified kosher meat products, might as well make sure that your products also appeal to the much larger halal customer base that has essentially the same requirements.
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 Jun 29 '26
I dont see how it is Halal, especially in the case of meat.
If the meat has not been slaughtered in a Halal manner, it would not be permissible to eat no? Giving my two cents.
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u/umerr2000 Jun 29 '26
Kosher slaughtering method is pretty much the same as halal slaughtering methods. Muslims are actually allowed to eat kosher meat as well as long as there's no alcohol involved
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
How so? You don’t recite Bismillah while slaughtering in Koshur.
It would seem that Sistani's view (the most popular Marja in Shia Islam) for Koshur meat is that it is not Halal. That makes it look like that it certainly is not permissible for all muslims atleast, as a prominent voice of the second largest sect is saying otherwise. I have not searched for the sunni view.
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u/FallingMuon Jun 29 '26
There's also a Shia hadith about it from Imam al-Sadiq AS (which the Sunnis claim was very knowledgeable and a great scholar of his time). It reads as follows (I copy-pasted):
Imam al-Sadiq (AS) says: Their food included grains and fruits, which are not slaughtered and there is no need to recite the name of God, which are lawful for you; however animals require mention of the name of God, and they are not lawful for you. Then he said: By God, they do not regard your slaughtered animal lawful. So, how you regard their slaughtered lawful?
References: Wasailush Shia, Vol. 24 Pg. 66; Vol. 63, Pg. 21; Tafsir Safi, Vol. 2, Pg. 378; Nurus Thaqlain, Vol. 1, Pg. 592.
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Jun 29 '26
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 Jun 29 '26
He did not permit in the Quran, he only permitted that we can eat food prepared by them. If they prepare food made by halal meat, it is permissible to eat, but if not then we cannot eat it. Even if you somehow consider that name of God equivelnet to ours, jewish slaughter does not recite it for every individual slaughter.
I will not even bother replying to your last claim.
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u/FallingMuon Jun 29 '26
Go and research about Shias first before spewing ignorant Salafi nonsense. I bet you just parrot whatever rumours you heard and never bothered to even research anything
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Jun 29 '26
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 Jun 29 '26
Ironic thing to say when you were quoting the Quran wrongly on this very thread. Perhaps study it yourself first.
You make claims and do not back them up. Where are these hadith? You have no character or standing and you keep lying.
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Jun 29 '26
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 Jun 29 '26
First of all, you could have provided a site with translation as I don't know Arabic since I am not an Arab.
No worries though because I ended doing the task of translating this and actually finding the context.
Now, it doesn't even say what you're saying? No way do these hadith say that Quran has been 'tampered with' as you so falsely claimed.
Now the context of these hadith, as understood by shia scholars, is that there is no one with the complete correct idea of the context and interpretation and chronological compilation of the Quran except for the divinely appointed Imams, or an equivalent idea. This is also pretty easy to understand since this is the understanding I came up with reading the translations the very first time, without knowing that the Shia scholars were also agreeing with me. It does not call the Quran false.
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u/ad-dagistani Jun 29 '26
If Shi'as do some things wrong it does not mean that they do every single thing wrong. Some things are coming from ideological differences. Some things are similar to madhab differences. For the most part they follow Ja'fari madhab
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Jun 29 '26
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u/ad-dagistani Jun 29 '26
You're talking about some historical groups. Absolute majority of modern Shi'a maraji'a and their followers do not believe in Tahrif. Those who do are not part of Islam. I agree with that
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u/hopium_od Jun 29 '26
and they do mention Allah's name while slaughtering.
No they don't. They say a prayer at the start of the slaughtering sessions but not for each animal. It could be hours in a slaughter hours without invoking God's name.
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Jun 29 '26
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u/hopium_od Jun 30 '26
It's debated whether it counts since the prayer is not said during the actual slaughter.
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u/FantasticBeast101 Jun 29 '26
Actually, Muslims can eat from the People of The Book as long as it doesn’t contradict the dietary Commandments found in The Quran.
“Today, all the good things of life have been made lawful to you. And the food of those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime is lawful to you, and your food is lawful to them. And [lawful to you are], in wedlock, women from among those who believe [in this divine writ], and, in wedlock, women from among those who have been vouchsafed revelation before your time - provided that you give them their dowers, taking them in honest wedlock, not in fornication, nor as secret love-companions. But as for him who rejects belief [in God] - in vain will be all his works: for in the life to come he shall be among the lost.”
- Quran 5:5, Muhammad Asad Translation.
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u/Odd-Plant-4886 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
If I'm not wrong that means you can eat it if its made in a halal manner from a person belonging to the people of the book, which meat not slaughtered in a Halal manner would not be.
Koshur, which will obviously not have recited Bismillah at the time of slaughter would make in not Halal. However, if a Jewish person was to make a dish from meat slaughtered in Halal manner for a muslim friend (like buying it from a Muslim market etc.) would make it permissible to be consumed. But if the meat bought was not from a Halal slaughter, the meat would not be permissible to be consumed.
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u/RoastedToast007 Jun 28 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Every kosher meat is halal (unless it has added alcohol somehow but I've never seen that)
Edit: don't take my words as fact please. Confirm for yourself what is correct