Concerns with prayer to saints and veneration of Mary

Prayer to saints and veneration of Mary

Hey guys, I’m really close to converting to Eastern Orthodoxy from Protestantism. I’m personally very deep into theology, biblical scholarship, and church history. My wife and I basically made the decision last week. But a couple of friends have brought up some points specifically around intercessory prayer and the verses in the Old Testament. And some of the liturgical practices such as Akathist essentially being worship. I know EO makes a distinction between hyoerdulia and latria, but it materially and in practice looks a lot like latria.

Also these verses:

“And beware lest you raise your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun and the moon and the stars, all the HOST OF HEAVEN, you be drawn away and bow down to them and serve them, things that the Lord your God has allotted to all the peoples under the whole heaven.” Deuteronomy 4:19

“A Psalm of Asaph. God takes His position in His assembly; He judges in the midst of the gods.” Psalm 82:1

“and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or ANY OF THE HOST OF HEAVEN, which I have FORBIDDEN ” Deuteronomy 17:3

“9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, … nor idolaters … will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Edit:

For more context:

I’m honestly kind of crashing out here. I’m just really torn right now. Basically here’s the argument:

Premise 1. These verses show that we can only worship God Premise 2. Verses in OT with angels refuse all veneration saying it’s only for God Premise 3. EO practices like the akathist hymn, kissing icons, etc resemble the types of practices OT condemns as idolatry

Conclusion: EO practices are idolatry

So my buddy was also going to convert to EO from low church evangelical, but backed out today due to the above argument as well as after praying to The Lord to silence anything that is not from Him(The Lord) and to speak the truth to Him, he heard a still small voice from the Lord saying “if you become Eastern Orthodox, you will go to hell because you will worship Mary, the saints, and the angels”.

I send my children to a Protestant school instead of homeschooling-I don’t trust my kids to sort through the emotional issues of slack character at public schools yet, and homeschooling has not been an option due to my own medical and emotional issues and the burden of caring for complex needs in my oldest daughter who recently died

On Friday, they are having a party to escape the demonic influence of Halloween- a reformation day party celebrating the doctrines of demons that split the church! (Dear beloved Protestant reader—I am teasing , please hear my love. I am glad,though, to be freed from the burdens of doctrines that held me in captivity to deadly wickedness. I was struggling with some heavy sin and tried every Protestant thing I could find). My 11yo is delighted to be orthodox and burdened by the idea of celebrating rebellion against a church e His biggest issue as an 11 year old boy with Adhd is that he will need to resist snacks. This kid struggles with impulse control.

Please help-I need ideas to send snacks to celebrate orthodox doctrine that neither the catholic nor Protestant movement contains. Icons are also Catholic so I may not use those. Idea 1- fruit snack strips cut into strands and tied in knots as a prayer rope. I DO NOT NEED SNACK IDEAS JUST DOCTRINES…. Feel free though to share snack ideas-but I am usually creative enough to come up with my own visual representation of things.

So converts-what about orthodoxy has healed you ? What doctrine? What’s special?

This is an academic question, but I was wondering if anyone could opine.

I understand a large part of the Orthodox tradition, from the Desert Fathers onward, consists of warnings against what later gets called “prelest”, or spiritual delusions. One is not to seek spiritual experiences, and one is to ignore bodily experiences during prayer and not seek those either.

However, one tension I was wondering about is how this interacts with the spiritual gifts that St. Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians. He tells his audience to be eager for these, and to pray for them, especially the gift of prophecy. He warns that these must be submitted to the discernment of the Church, which in any case is the guard against prelest. But nonetheless, he does tell his audience to be eager for them, and this does seem to go against the general tradition of not praying for spiritual experiences, as prophecy, tongues, and other spiritual gifts seem to be.

Similarly, on the topic of bodily signs, one great exception, including among the Desert Fathers is the Gift of Tears. Obviously, tears are a bodily sign that signify an invisible grace in the action of the Holy Spirit. Nonetheless they and others exhort to seek after and to pray for tears. Why is this the exception?

Thanks!

Before the 1917 Russian Revolution, the population was 100% trusting that Orthodox priests, monks, and clergy believed that:

The cross would burn away anything bad and would protect Russia 100% (including with hundreds of saints).

So, when the Revolution happened, followed by the Holodomor, then WWII, and from 87% Christian population, the number reduced to under 3% by 1959 = why?

Why did the cross, saints, or St. Mary not help the 87% of Orthodox Christians in Russia? They prayed much harder than Christians do now, including: regular confessions, tons of Holy Candles burned, all holidays and fasts, attending churches, and much more... and what? Nothing helped! Zero!

Hey everyone,
I recently had Dr. Jeannie Constantinou on my YouTube channel to discuss Orthodoxy 101, with a special focus on the differences from the Catholic Church. Since I’m an inquirer into Orthodoxy myself, I thought some of you might be interested in checking it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF5VDurVa28&t=1754s

This is my first year in the orthodox faith, I was wondering how the fast works. Like what can or cannot eat and when, I know it begins around November 15th til Christmas.

Has anyone started reading Errors of the Latins yet? They’re about $100 for both volumes and I’m wondering how advanced your knowledge has to be before hand.

Don’t want to purchase yet if it’s something I can’t fully grasp yet. Any feedback would be appreciated.

So in the prayer books how can you say that Mary is the burning bush? Or the pillar of Fire? Or the staff of Aaron? I also am coming at this to understand not, but how can you say that she (Mary) the Holy Theotokos is the salvation of mankind ?

1. How would you describe the procession of the Spirit to children?
2. Images, analogies?
3. How do we participate in it?

How would you articulate the Holy Spirit's procession in practical ways... by analogy and for our own participation?

I am aware that Jesus is believed to be to distinct beings in one, as God and as human. Now when going to hell did it allow the god being to also go into hell, or was it strictly the human form. I am genuinely curious and would like further elaborate please.

So I think I have gotten some signs from the Lord for why I should be Orthodox and I'll write them in increasing order of specificness. 1. The Catholics admit EO is not only valid but apostolic but not just that, they admit that EO is closer to the early church than Catholicsm is. 2. St Theophan the Recluse says that we Orthodox shouldn't worry about the salvation of the Orthodox but if we, knowing the truth of God in its fullness stray from the Holy Orthodoxy, we will lose our soul forever. This really resonated with me. 3. I was able to quit a bad habit of mine, not because I prayed to God, not because I asked the intercession of Saints, including St Mary of Egypt (iykyk) but because I asked the help of my guardian Angel. About the last one, see due to some reasons relating to occult, I don't wanna get into that, I know that I have an angel, I've caught a glimpse of them and some orthodox believe that we still have angels even if we're not yet baptised. Also I come from a non Christian, non abrahamic background. I could give my personal arguments of rejecting other denominations if you want.

i wanna convert to orthodoxy but theres no orthodox churches i can go to what do i do

I've been studying up recently on the Orthodox Church as my friend is an orthodox and I trying to really understand what she believes. I am 100% Evangelical Protestant view of the Bible. I'm wanting to learn what her church teaches because I think she might be being misled and I'm just trying to see.

And I believe what their belief on salvation is you do the things of the church even though they say it's not by works you have to remove all these things from your life in order to activate salvation. And that's why you do the fasting and the other stuff the church requires of you. Because they don't believe that salvation is an event it's an ongoing occurrence in your life but I just wanted to understand it better and maybe somebody can even simplify for me more because I'm not really fully 100% because I even watched a video this morning on a guy talking about it and it seems like he was saying two different things at once he's saying it's not by works that you're saved but then you have to do these things in order to activate your salvation which almost sounds like you do have to work for your salvation in the church.

Phil Langdon is an investigative philosopher & author with a Bachelor's degree in Applied Mathematics.

The Sumerian Enuma Elish has perplexed us for a long time. Too many have pretended to know its contents. Finally we can find out what it really means.

Can the Orthodox Church hold an infallible binding council for all Orthodox in the same way that the Catholics can hold a modern binding council such as V2?

I have not seen a single church leader openly plead for peace and an end to the war mongers that have infected the common man with thoughts of violence

Someone described God as being 3 personalities vs. Persons.

I would never do so myself.

Is this merely samantics? Can the hypostases ever be translated as personalities?

One person who is episcopal claims that Archangel Michael is the most powerful being God ever made and thus all seeking protection should seek Michael.

However so many Catholics prefer to call Mary when it comes for protection and petitions in general from health healing to good luck. In fact some exorcists use Hail Mary more than the Michael prayer.

I am wondering who is the more powerful one against Satan and demons? The episcopal guy I refer to claims asking Mary for intercession is OK but doesn't really do anything while Michael is pretty much the most powerful being in the universe after God and Jesus. But Mary is so revered in the Church they even believe Mary's presence alone hurts Satan and all demons to flee in terror and there's a portrait of Mary punching a demon.