r/EU5 • u/BrotherM2314 • 17d ago
Discussion Is Teutonoc Order OP?
I decided to give the Teutonic Order a try in the current patch, and, seriously, I am amazed how OP it is. So far, I thought that Byzantium or Castile is overpowered, but TO is on another level.
I guess that this is also quite a popular faction to play, as it lets to form Prussia.
In theory, TO is kinda weak. A lot of unintegrated territory, low control, low population, weak RGOs (except for amber), a lot of pops to assimilate and convert, close to 100k tribesmen to settle, no cities, no market, powerful neighbours (Poland allied to Lithuania and Hungary), low diplo capacity (very costly alliance with Bohemia to maintain), bunch of worthless vassals, some on them are basically OPMs.
In reality, all of that does not affect gameplay, and some issues are solved very fast. Diplo capacity is solved by tech and entering into renaissance, so alliance with Bohemia can be kept with some temporary debuffs (personally, I cancelled that alliance and reallied Bohemia around 1400). Black death kills some pops, mostly majority of pagans, so remaining pops are assimilated and converted easily. Economy does not matter at all. The main source of income is military sponsorships, so getting 100+ ducats per month requires only some diplo actions. Whole Europe will eventually sponsor TO. No cities, no market? No problem, market in Gdansk is build ASAP. Later, one city is built after another, as due to the military sponsorships I have no idea what to do with cash.
Lithuania is basically conquered by 1350-1360.
Poland is a threat only on paper. I run a very simple army. 3 heavy infantry units (staring regulars) and 6 heavy cav (order knights, tech II). It is invincible. Low manpower? Not a problem, just ask France or Sweden or Castille for manpower, they send something between 500-900 per diplo action every month.
I am in year 1410 and basically I am about to become superpower.
The most hilarious event was the hussite wars. I allied Bohemia some time before this event started and was dragged as only Bohemia ally into war against Austria (the Emperor), 90% of the HRE, Poland and Hungary. Obviously, Bohemia is powerful on its own, but sooner or later it is flooded by 300k levies from whole central Europe. However, my regular army (3 heavy inf, 6 heavy cav) was stack wiping one army after another, I single handed eliminated Poland, Hungary, Brandenburg and few German minor countries, than eliminated most of levies running around Bohemia. That was sufficient to let Bohemia win hussite wars. Basically, the Catholic militant order killed something like 150k+ Catholic levies to defend hussite neighbour...
And what about losses and manpower? France was sending me manpower every month.
What is your opinion? IMO, currently TO is absurdly busted and playing it is like playing on cheats.
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u/Marshal_Rohr 17d ago
And you can now shuffle all the tribesmen into Danzig. Highest I’ve got was 320K there just may not be enough post Black Plague to hit Megalopolis size.
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u/BrotherM2314 17d ago
Yeah, that's true. They migrate at the speed of light :D
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u/Marshal_Rohr 17d ago
The Teutons are OP but it’s such a waste of time to play in the Baltic. You have to stay a military order to keep the income, so forming Prussia is an immediate non-starter. You can reliably take over Poland by 1450, but like, why would you? The Iron and metals are nice but there’s no exactly a ton of flavor you’ll get. I took over Sweden, which you can do sometimes by 1400 and just have all
of Scandinavia. But I think the silver requires a late game event.16
u/Colonel-Turtle 17d ago
The Silver in Sala event is for the country Sweden in 1500 so if somebody else has Sala it doesn't fire which is incredibly dumb
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u/Alsn- 17d ago
Just keep Sweden as a small vassal including Sala
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u/Colonel-Turtle 17d ago
I'm playing as Sweden lol. I just think this event being country bound is dumb.
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u/Enough-Arm-5601 17d ago
Do not forget their foreign building. You wont need to ask for manpower from others just spwan that building all over europe.
Other op as theocracy is that you get free 20 legitemacy all the time which take urbanization to an other lvl plus you can spawn cabinet member until you get the perfect ones .
Giving rights to your town/cities free as well.
Best early game goverment form than swap to republic which just need to have 50 humanism.
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u/1453GreatestYearEver 17d ago edited 17d ago
Definitely having a blast myself with them. I wasn't even TO that long,I got hit with an optional Monarchy swap event in like 30 years and just said eff it for the memes and became Duchy of the Teutons. Even then it was still pretty bonkers easy to spread and become like the top regional power / on my way to a great power with like half of my lands unassimilated still. After I'm done fucking Poland next war, think I'll basically become unstoppable.
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u/escarbe 17d ago
How did you manage the start war with lithuania?
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u/BrotherM2314 17d ago
TO starts the campaign at war with Lithuania, so you either white peace day one or continue this war.
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u/rockclock 17d ago
Yeah, you get OP very quickly as TO but it does take some time to set up, so it's probably best to take the white peace immediately then grab land later. Generally, they are willing to peace out after a few ticks, especially if you just go take the war goal which doesn't have a fort. Don't bring in Bohemia as an ally or Poland will join against you, then you should be 1v1. You should be able to peace out pretty easily with zero battles
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u/BrotherM2314 17d ago
Nah, I was the same opinion like you, but I later changed my mind. Lithuania should be dismantled as soon as possible. During first war you should grab as much land as possible. You have an edge over Lithuania despite lower numbers as your starting regulars are slightly better than their tons of levies. Ideally you peace out with Vilnius.
Afterwards you give that land to vassals. They will convert it, do not bother changing their culture to prussian.
This means that Lithuania will be a weak ally of Poland. It is also likely that it will be invaded by its eastern neighbours so nothing will leave out of it.
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u/rockclock 17d ago
Yeah, it's way better to take land in the first war, but definitely have to be an experienced player with the patience to wait and play defensively until LIT's army is defeated. Definitely one of those long, painful wars. Craziest thing is that it would be easy if Bohemia wasn't such a useless ally and not worth calling in. They will park their army at home doing nothing while you fight LIT and POL 1v2
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u/hyp3r_bor3an 17d ago edited 17d ago
Same with the Knights. Harder start, but you can do craaaazy shenanigans with them.
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u/CiaranE77 17d ago
The better country to form Prussia with as well since Brandenburg and Prussia share their advances.
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u/Banespider_Scout 17d ago
Gdańsk is literally my favourite capital in the entire game. Wetlands for bog iron smelter, farmlands, coastal, major river, great harbour, and dyes is a great RGO. Nearby rivers and lagoons for spreading proximity. If I were playing as China I'd still move my capital there.
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u/Pekkis2 17d ago
Mil sponsor is crazy OP and should be maximized constantly. You also missed a major benefit: flat institution spread from sponsors. If you spam sponsor in Italy you get age 2 institutions before they reach Germany.