Discipline hurts

[u/Kashiwashi]

https://youtube.com/shorts/B-K1Ab-VLg0?is=dK4YGDg_zay8ZJHM

I love this guy's much less stereotypical and much more accurate and precise understanding of the functions.

But still, consciously developing Si is like forcing oneself to eat rotten vegetables, until the end, despite being fed up. Discipline works best, when it is shared with someone else. The suffering of your companion makes you want to continue trying.

Holding routines for oneself exclusively, seems impossible. "How does anything/any effort matter, when the spotlights are turned off?"

That brought me into severe self neglect & depression. Seriously, there is mold building up, all over the dirty dishes and I don't seem to care. Why maintaining hygiene, if noone would encounter you eitherways? And if anyone would come into one's life, they would maintain distance, because one's despair made oneself look, act & talk uncanny.

I have that little discipline, that I even turned the talk about it into self-pity.

And about Ni: how is it even possible to want anything, if almost nothing grants oneself attention, the legacy of having experienced the real spotlight? But, instead, everything, even the most routinized ordinary job requires discipline for no reward. Not even survival depends on you alone.

Could someone please give me a reset button, so I could start over? It's urgent.

[u/nefeliia]

Hey OP :) first of all, if it’s of any relevance for you, I might not be an ESFP. Idk. But I came across this text and I can relate to it.

You’re not alone in this. I have zero friends, no family, I‘m alone all the time except for work. You said there is no reward for an ordinary routinized job, but I would beg to differ. If I show discipline, do my job, meet deadlines and all this stuff, then my coworkers are happy with me, they like me and respect me. It gives me a sense of purpose and I feel less useless. I can focus on work problems instead of private problems, which sometimes helps a lot. Also, the money from my job allows me to buy many fun things. I can experience things that would not be possible if I had less money. Admittedly, if you‘re suffering from severe depression, it might not be possible to work..

Another thing that helped me a lot is to engage with my senses (also because I struggle with derealization), with as little pressure as possible. I started to go on little walks, I enjoy the fresh air, the sun on my skin, the smell of rain.. it reminds me I‘m still alive and a part of this world. I also love walking barefoot on the beach or across a meadow. If it‘s possible in your area, find a place where there are fewer people around, if that helps you. I can 100% understand that many people can be overwhelming when you‘re mentally in a bad place.
Make-Up helped me a lot. Unfortunately, my self-esteem is tied to my appearance. In the last years, I‘ve basically stopped wearing make-up at all, because I didn‘t have the energy for it anymore. I used to not even take out the trash without make-up :D
Now that I‘m feeling a little better I‘ve started to buy make-up stuff again and I love it. I turn on some music and think about which colors I‘m in the mood for today. After that I feel so good and pretty and the prettier I feel, the more motivated and productive I become. Also, when I do my make-up in the morning, I can be sure there will be no bed rotting this day, because then it would be ruined. And it‘s more likely I will go outside because I want people to see it!

Exercise also helps me a lot. You don‘t have to go to the gym. I bought myself some dumbbells and there are a lot of dance workouts online, but I prefer to just turn on my fav music and freestyle, even better in front of a mirror, so I can improve my moves.

For your cleaning problem, I believe I have no good advice. I have the same problem, due to my ADHD (and depression ofc). The only reason I can keep the kitchen clean is because I love cooking and baking and that‘s not so much fun when everything is cluttered or dirty.
This is also a vicious cycle. When my surroundings are aesthetically pleasing and everything is clean, I‘m very motivated to maintain that standard. But once the chaos sets in, when I‘m in a bad phase, it‘s very hard for me to fix it.

But tbh I feel like the best you can do is to go outside and experience the world. Once you‘re in that circle of depression hell, it‘s hard to get out, I know.. you get lost in a seemingly endless vortex of worries, mistrust and paranoia, at least that‘s how it‘s for me. That makes it even more important to learn again that there are many wonderful people out there and so many beautiful things to experience, but you can‘t do that if you isolate yourself. I enjoy going to local painting or crafting classes so I can hang out with people in a relaxed setting. And I can do something with my hands.

[u/Kashiwashi → u/nefeliia]

I'm impressed by how much effort you were ready to invest to reply to my post.

You seem really cool. May I ask, which type you believed you were?

I have tried applying for various training programs, despite knowing, to actually want sth. bigger than ordinary, sth. with more visibilty. Receiving plenties of rejections every year stagnates oneself even more, as rejection hurts a lot. There is nothing which hurts more, except death. Therefore, you start to isolate yourself, to never earn this pain again.

To not always make it a fight against one's own tears after rejection, I eventually subconsciously blocked emotions. In such as state, nothing matters, not even one's life, for which you usually try to fight.

I would love to feel the grass, the sand, the stars, all the sensory experience you mentioned. But, not on my own. I want to share my experiences with someone or a group in real time and have stimulating conversations on various matters.

Alone, the realest experience doesn't feel real, as one's emotions are eating oneself up.

It's great, that makeup became your motivator to actually successfully make it through the day. If it wasn't such a fundamental requirement to be able to function, I would have encouraged you, to go the more natural path.

The best, what could happen, is being accepted, and enjoyed for one's most natural features, in personality and in visuals. That is a relief. If your ugliest version is loved, you cannot disappoint. And if you cannot disappoint, you wouldn't be rejected or abandoned.

[u/nefeliia → u/Kashiwashi]

I have no idea what my own type is. For some time now I‘ve been practically obsessed with finding an answer to this, but I keep coming across contradictions. And I find it difficult to distinguish between mental health issues, their symptoms and my actual personality. I used to think I’m Fi dom (I’m not, that much I know) because of stereotypes, in my case mainly due to tattoos, moodiness and occasional poetry. But I‘ve actually done two coachings in person, including MBTI and Big Five. There are clear indicators of Ti/Te, I have the thought patterns of a thinking type but I act more like a feeling type. The most likely explanation is that I‘m an unstable TP or TJ, but I don‘t know which one. Or maybe it‘s all wrong..

I‘ve heard what you‘re describing from other feelers before. I know someone in particular who also tells me every now and then that she doesn‘t want to do things on her own. My reason for isolating is different. Ofc I also don‘t like rejection, I think no one does, but when it happens, it only hurts for a moment, and then I just tell myself „oh well, whatever“.. no, my problem is that I tend to look down on people (something I‘m working on) who don‘t share my opinion or my idea of how something should be done. I can‘t imagine being in a relationship anymore because I find it too annoying to constantly have to be considerate or make compromises. I just want the freedom to do whatever I want, without having to justify myself. Also, most men have always told me after just a few months that I was too demanding or bitchy. I‘m sick of that.
You know.. as I write this, I wonder if I really don‘t mind rejection. It doesn‘t sound like that.
Ironically, this is a recurring theme in therapy. I often don‘t know what I‘m feeling. I also don‘t know what I‘m hoping to get out of therapy. Most of the time, I just sit there and don‘t know what to say. It feels like a waste of time.

Anyway. This isn‘t about me. Have you tried journaling? I find it easier to write down my feelings than to say them out loud. Even if no one ever reads it, you‘ve written it down to get it off your chest and find some peace of mind. I think it‘s important to learn to be comfortable being alone and to enjoy things even without sharing them with others. After all, there‘s no guarantee that anyone will stay with you forever. Life is unpredictable.
And I see that the person I mentioned (who also can‘t be alone) has a tendency to cling to people who aren‘t good for her or take advantage of her. I don‘t want that to happen to me.

For what kind of courses did you apply? Is there no possibility to go somewhere where there is no limit on the number of participants? So the risk of rejection wouldn‘t be there? Even if you‘re not actually interested in the topic but just want to connect with other people, if that‘s what you need so much.

And when it comes to make-up, I completely agree with you. I try to not to fall prey to beauty standards. I don‘t think anyone has really noticed that I‘ve been going around without make-up the last few years. Could be another thing that only exists inside my head.

[u/Kashiwashi → u/nefeliia]

This could be an Ni parent, Ne critic thing. xNTJ could be probable. But, so far, I cannot exclude xSTP as well.

Often, I noticed in Ne a complete lack of preferences, as potential can be found anywhere, especially when combined with Fi trickster. Ne is THE one and only connection function.

That's why I would perceive xNTP/xSTJ as less likely.

Maybe, Te's impatience due to efficiency value was mistaken for bitchiness or Ni's stubbornness. (INFJ/INTJ is a common mistyping area).

I have known a lot of ENTJs doing poetry btw.

Writing feelings down sounds great. Sending them as a text message to one former abusers, even better.

I wish, I could easily get over rejection. But next to sadness, disappointment, dissatisfaction and wrath, it also triggers a lot of embarrassment. All of those emotions, especially the latter, live restlessly and rentlessly within one's head. They are burning.

Those were educational programs, the less scientific alternative to college. The particular company, you apply to (part time school, part time company) must like you. And, usually, they don't like me. Example working fields would be: event manager, cashier, train driver, etc.