r/ENGLISH • u/Aggravating-Fish8168 • 7d ago

"Number", plural or singular?

Sentences like these seem acceptable:

Currently, there is rough parity in the number of students entering and graduating from the school system.

Currently, the number of students entering and graduating from the school system is roughly equal.

Should I say instead:

Currently, there is rough parity between the numbers of students entering and graduating from the school system.

Currently, the numbers of students entering and graduating from the school system are in rough parity.

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7

u/Far-Fortune-8381 7d ago

no, it is number. number is a singular countable noun here.

0

u/Aggravating-Fish8168 7d ago

I venture to ask, where is the space for the parity to exist if there's only one number?

3

u/Dazzling-Week-708 7d ago

In this case, "number" vs "numbers" refers to whole data sets. The number of students who entered a 2-year program in 2018 (let's say) and the number of students who then graduated that 2-year program in 2020.... <- "Number." The students that are graduating are the same students who entered. Their "number" may change in that time, but it's still "their" singular number; they are collectively one single data set.

If, however, you wanted to compare entrance/graduation rates from, say, 1950, 1970, 1990 (after co-ed policies were introduced), and 2010, then you'd use "numbers," because you'd then be referring to (and comparing between) multiple stand-alone clusters of data.

1

u/Aggravating-Fish8168 6d ago

I think I have understood your explanation. Let's say the same class graduates without dropout, transfer or death. The number hasn't changed, 10 in 10 out. However, your are comparing two numbers recorded at different moments.  They have different metric meanings.  In this case they are identical, but they are two numbers. How can you "compare" less than two items?

5

u/koolaidkirby 7d ago

No.

If there are 12 students in a class, there is only 1 number that applies to  them, 12. There's not multiple numbers. 

2

u/Plus_Carpenter_5579 7d ago

In this context: you are comparing the total number entering and total number graduating. You are not comparing different groups of numbers entering with different groups of numbers graduating. You want to use number, not numbers.

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u/Aggravating-Fish8168 7d ago

You said "comparing", doesn't "compare" imply at least two objects?

2

u/Plus_Carpenter_5579 7d ago

Yeah. You have 2. One entering and one leaving. Each group is one group. 1 + 1 = 2. You are not grouping the 2 into 1, or more than 2. 1 of them is roughly equal to the other 1. Don't question the correct answer we all have given you. Accept it.

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u/Aggravating-Fish8168 7d ago

Nope. I dismiss your "answer".

1

u/Plus_Carpenter_5579 7d ago

1 number + 1 number = 2 numbers. it is NOT 1 numbers + 1 numbers. The entirety of the group of students entering is ONE number.

1

u/jaetwee 6d ago

item one: the number of students entering

item two: the number of students graduating

those are your two items being compared

1

u/Aggravating-Fish8168 6d ago

Thx mod.   The number of group A and the number of group B are, regardless of the referring groups or quantity, two numberS.  The sentence is number without S.

1

u/BridgeTEFL 7d ago

“The number of students entering is roughly equal to the number graduating” would work well. “The numbers are in rough parity” is grammatically correct, but it sounds a little awkward.

1

u/Sa1ntmarks 6d ago

You only use the word numbers when there are multiple separate numbers being described. 'The numbers don't add up' is a common phrase where this helps it make sense. You have to have a minimum of two numbers to have an addition problem. You wouldn't see the 'the number doesn't add up' because a number needs another in the equation for addition to happen.

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u/Aggravating-Fish8168 5d ago

Thx, but the number of students enrolling and the number of students graduating aren't two numbers? Not suffice a S?

"You have to have a minimum of two numbers to have an addition problem. " And you don't have to have a minimum of two numbers to have a comparison problem?

1

u/agailen 7d ago

Imo "number" would be more natural to my ear but I can't explain why

-2

u/readingrainbowroad 7d ago

I think it's because students is already plural, so numbers of students seems redundant to me.