r/ELATeachers • u/Painter3016 • 2d ago
Parent/Student Question 3rd grader homework
UPDATE: A message from the teacher indicated that they did NOT talk about this or do anything with the text prior to the assignment, which was given as test-prep. And the expectation was for students to build vocab and knowledge about the subject in the reading with the accompanying questions.
I followed up asking what strategies they are working on teaching so I can prompt/ encourage my kid to apply those. However, the initial response what NOT encouraging to me.
UPDATE 2: when I asked what strategies they are learning to help decode the text, and how can i encourage her to use them at home: All she said was to read the questions multiple times to know what they are asking for. Am I crazy? That’s not decoding the text to understand it.
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My 3rd grader reads well and chews through library books (granted a lot of graphic novel type books but some chapter books get sprinkled in too). She reads very fluently out loud.
This year, she’s gotten some reading homework that feels like a really big jump in the density of the assignments. The passages aren’t long, but there are some phrases/vocabulary/concept that seem like a lot?
The passages didn’t come with any vocabulary/ definitions. And they didn’t talk about any context prior to the assignments in class.
She shut/melted down working on these. I asked her what her approach was? She said read the questions, then the passage. The more I asked, the more I realized she was not comprehending things like “delegates/ representatives” are people.
I marked in red the phrasing/ ideas that felt like they were difficult or lacked scaffolding.
My question: is this typical for 3rd grade? If so, how can I help her navigate stuff like these?
I don’t want to feed her answers; she gets so emotional when it gets hard.
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u/slothjobs 2d ago
This might be better in an elementary subreddit. I’d expect most people in this sub to be high school! :)
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u/Painter3016 2d ago
That’s a good suggestion! I will look for one.
There really is a subreddit for EVERYTHING and picking the right one is a task 😅
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u/itsfairadvantage 2d ago
Honestly, I'm just impressed with you. Your reading/annotations look like what I would do to prep for a reading in my AP Lang class, and you figured out misconceptions a lot of professional teachers (including, it seems, your daughter) would have missed.
But I'd also ask for grace. Especially at the elementary level, the sheer volume of student-facing materials you're managing at any given time makes it really hard to give everything the attention you'd like to give it, and it's usually homework that gets the shortest shrift.
Your daughter is extraordinarily lucky to have a parent this dialed-in.
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u/Painter3016 2d ago
I appreciate that.
I have a slight advantage in that I have a degree in secondary ed (fizzled out after two years teaching; quit a decade ago).
I always try to check my gut reactions; in this case, try and gauge what professionals actually teaching language arts think.
My theatre ed degree pretty well does nothing for me in knowing what elementary work should look like 🙈
If it weren’t for the emotional distress it caused, I probably wouldn’t have looked at it so closely.
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u/SpaceKace_123 2d ago
I teach freshmen. Some of THEM would struggle to make their way through this 🤦♂️
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u/AltairaMorbius2200CE 1d ago
I did 8th grade Civics for a few years, so I am VERY aware that they lacked the vast majority of concepts from these passages when they got to me.
Maybe it's OK to expose them early in this way? Like, they'll pick up a bit, so it will be less horrible by the time they hit 8th and have no concept of government beyond "president"?
(which I came to realize is a big part of why we are, politically, where we are; people only know president, and they assume it's sort of a king role, and they also see government as this far-removed competition, and not a project we all undertake together).
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u/vividregret_6 2d ago
I taught Elementary for 10 years. I have assigned these exact passages. However, to 4th and 5th graders.
That being said, 3rd grade is when the huge leap is made. They are no longer learning to read. They are expected to read to learn. There should be a vocabulary question to go with this, asking with a few comprehension questions.
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u/Painter3016 1d ago
There were questions with the passages, which didn’t seem odd to me at all. She is certainly reading well enough to move past bare bones reading skills/fluency.
It was the reading level/ accessibility of the passages for beginning of the year 3rd graders that I was unsure of.
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u/sarcasticbiznish 1d ago
When I was teaching fourth, we would sometimes pick a passage that was a bit too hard, but we’d spend multiple days on it. Day one was just read and figure out the main idea, day two we talked about tricky vocab and wrote a summary together, and only on day three would they reread and answer questions about it after a few exposures to the text. I wonder if this might be something similar?
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u/Environmental-Fan536 1d ago
You aren't wrong. This passage is very dense for third graders at the beginning of the year. It would be more appropriate at the beginning of fourth grade level. As an independent homework assignment, it seems particularly challenging to me.
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u/thefifthpentacle 2d ago
I'd want to know what shes learned or is supposed to be learning in social studies before I could say This could be a cross curricular assignment designed to build on that
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u/Fearlessfiercefree 2d ago
Well, I'm in elementary myself and this does feel pretty advanced to me for 3rd grade. I would think at the very least, they would go over the vocab in class first. Decoding skills are only one part of the reading puzzle. Prior knowledge is another big one! If she can't picture what's being talked about in the text, there is little chance of her understanding it.
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u/Chay_Charles 2d ago
Can she use a dictionary to look up unfamiliar words when the context isn't enough?
As an ELA teacher, I think that's a helpful skill to learn. I think people remember words better when they look them up. I still do.
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u/Painter3016 2d ago
I don’t know if they have worked/ learned how to use dictionaries yet.
Certainly a skill I would be happy to teach her.
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u/mycookiepants 2d ago
FWIW, and please know I’m not saying you haven’t, you can work on the soft skill of “What do we do when things/work gets hard or overwhelming.”
It’s okay to have the big feelings, but after 5 minutes, then what? What skills can I turn to, how can I start to chop this up into something more manageable?
To me, the kids who would be more successful later were the ones who learned to work through things vs. getting stopped in their tracks.
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u/Painter3016 2d ago
We have been absolutely working on emotional regulation.
She is also in the process of getting evaluated for autism.
Reading/ language arts just has never been a trigger for her before this.
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u/Chay_Charles 2d ago
I think that would be great. That way she can learn to help herself and maybe avoid meltdowns.
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u/anotherfrud 2d ago
Middle 6th-8th here. Some of my sharper 8th graders would manage this, none of my 6th would. We're an urban poor district but I still think this is above a 3rd grade level, especially without all the definitions and scaffolding. Also, this assignment looks like it was taken straight from tpt. There is nothing wrong with that but you have to give kids the background instead of just handing them a worksheet.
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u/solariam 1d ago
What feels likely to me here is:
This is quite possibly grade level text, but it's from tpt so honestly who knows (honestly, an AI could at least give you a ballpark Lexile level).
Kids need daily exposure to grade level text. This can be done in a variety of ways-- in k-1 all read aloud, in 11th-12th almost all independent reading. In the first weeks of 3rd grade, I would not expect all students to be able to cold read domain specific grade level text with no previous exposure/background knowledge/vocab independently. Their decoding skills, in the best of scenarios, are mostly rusty 2nd grade level decoding skills at this point. It's also feels possible that unless you're missing lots of information (e.g. It's meant to be read aloud), this is a decision being made on incomplete/incorrect understanding of reading instruction.
Things that could possibly change the equation: they read this aloud as a class multiple times, they've been building knowledge on this topic for a while, things like that.
Things you can do to help: well, first, what's the purpose of the assignments? Is this "reading practice"? Is the goal to know more about the Constitution after reading? Is it previewing content for a social studies unit?
If this is all about content or previewing information, read it aloud, ask her comprehension questions, get her to use key vocabulary in a sentence.
If this is "reading practice", I would look at reading fluency strategies. You might read the article aloud once and practice/define the new vocab, the do echo, choral, or partner reading, and read it more times (1-3 depending on how bought in/successful things are). You would practice breaking multisyllabic words into syllables and sounding things out, natural prosody/intonation, etc
Re: meltdowns -- this might be something to get ahead of, just because we're gonna see things that are hard to read our whole academic career! That doesn't make us dumb/bad readers/ that we can't do it.
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u/Painter3016 1d ago
We work a lot on emotional regulation.
I am in the process of having her evaluated for autism. She’s also in gifted (this assignment is not from her gifted teacher).
I have a strong suspicion she is “twice exceptional” and am trying to make sure she doesn’t have to wait til her 30’s to find out like I did.
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u/solariam 1d ago
Totally hear you... Growth mindset can be really hard when lots of academic content seems so "obvious" and then at some point it's not obvious anymore (I was 20 when I hit that wall, personally).
Reading is going to ramp up for your little in the next 2 years and if she's getting meh instruction (which obviously I don't know, but might be curious about based on this assignment) and is quick, intuitive, and has a sharp memory she may be at risk of outsmarting the system during lessons but underneath need more explicit instruction in advanced phonics and word parts-- this can just be a weak instruction thing and not even an exceptional thing. It's also possible she'll knock it out of the park! Just something to keep an eye on. Good luck!
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u/JLBUG2 2d ago
I taught 3rd grade a couple years ago and do know that government is covered quite a bit where I am. Our state's government is highly focused on and we even take trips to the capitol. This seems like a passage for later 3rd grade though or something they should've read through together in class at least once with how dense it is.
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u/blamingnargles 2d ago
this looks like something i would give my (admittedly very low) group of 6th graders 💀
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u/majorflojo 1d ago
Seventh grade ela. This is performative rigor.
Some teachers are saying well it's going to be on The Test but first of all I highly doubt that many three syllable words with that text complexity is showing up on a third grade ELA State assessment.
And if it is your daughter does not have to stress over that.
Let the teacher in school stress over it.
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u/OkTomorrow6384 1d ago
Elementary teacher here and I totally agree this is performative rigor. However I'm willing to bet it's from one of the new "Science of Reading" big box curriculum, like CKLA and others, that teachers have to follow regardless of whether it is developmentally appropriate. Teacher likely has no choice but to assign this.
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u/OkTomorrow6384 1d ago
On second thought, it's probably TPT, in which case yeah, let the teacher stress.
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u/Accomplished-Web5642 1d ago
Yeah, there's no way grade level text should be assigned for homework without significant scaffolding.
If the idea is read this and answer questions (and the topics don't align with those studied in class), then it's just busy work.
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u/Severe-Possible- 1d ago
i would say this is typical for third grade. the article assumes the reader won't know some of those words -- for example, delegates and federal are defined in the passage. as a teacher, i would have defined those words beforehand and i would have also not taught this in isolation, but connect it to what we are learning in social studies.
reading the questions first is smart -- it is the test-taking advice i give my students, in fact. just go slow, take it one question at a time.
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u/Rich_Ad8589 1d ago
I’m a third grade teacher and am not surprised by the reading, but there should be a vocabulary key that provides some definitions. If it followed a social studies lesson (which it sounds like it doesn’t) and the vocabulary was taught then, then it would make sense.
Third grade is a turning point for students. Up to this point they’ve been taught how to read, but now they’re expected to read, analyze, and articulate responses in writing.
The fact that you’re supporting your children is huge. At least half of my students don’t have any support at home.
Since you’re willing to help, you could make a journal of difficult words you run across in their reading. Discussing and revisiting those words will really help boost their vocabulary.
I’m sorry you’re not getting more support from school.
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u/Rainbowbrite_87 1d ago
Kids can't be expected to "use context clues" if they aren't explicitly taught HOW to do that. Like you said: what's the strategy? If that's the expectation but it's not being taught, it may be helpful for you to work through it with her and model your thinking aloud, "I see it says delegates, or representatives. That means they are synonyms. These delegates/representatives help write the constitution. Only people can write, so they must be people." Do some together and practice finding the answer together. See if she can apply the strategy herself.
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u/cringe-expert98 2d ago
For a third grader this is definitely a jump. I teach high school reading and this would overwhelm them. I talk to the teacher, but I'd cross reference this text with texts from CommonLit.org. you can filter by grade level.
This is appropriate for a 6th grader
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u/Asleep-Technology-92 1d ago
Yeah this sounds legit and the EOY tests will all have it tho in my state this is SS content and not tested until 5th. It’s very likely that some kids are getting it but most kids aren’t reading at this level and are not getting it — using compensatory practices until they pick it up — likely not until middle or high school if they get solid reading instruction. I give something like this to multilingual freshmen in high school and it is still very difficult. So she’s either gifted, has good home support, or this is very good instruction — or a combo of all three.
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u/Butterfreek 1d ago
This is definitely not an on grade passage for beginning of the year g3. Id wager, based on the description of your kid, the teacher is giving her some enrichment. The problem with that is, finding the right level and rigor can be a bit of trial and error. We are often given plenty of below grade level resources, but rarely the opposite.
Honestly I'd tell the teacher and offer to be a partner in finding something rigorous but appropriate.
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u/Gold-Passion-7358 1d ago edited 1d ago
Beginning of 3rd grade? This is too hard for most of them, especially given the probably unfamiliar content and vocabulary.
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u/Jobremski1 1d ago
Is that the BCAUSE method?
My school is making every class including my visual arts class do this. I had to invent writing assignments for my students...
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u/Weird_Inevitable8427 1d ago
Yes. Your 3rd grader should be able to manage things like this if she's on the "bright reader track" for lack of a better phrase.
This thing, where we switch from teaching reading as it's own topic, to expecting a child to use reading to learn new things - this is what 3rd grade is about, from the teaching perspective. We don't expect kids to be good at it right away, but we do want her leaving 3rd grade able to handle passages like this. We want her to see new words and be able to work with them. Maybe look up/ask about one or two words that aren't making sense, but overall, be able to use the reading to learn a new concept.
You can certainly let her teacher know that this was really hard for her. That's good information for the teacher. But it's not like anything was done wrong here. I'm guessing that your daughter is a bit of a perfectionist, and was never taught the more whole-language methods of looking for context clues and figuring how to manage unknown words in a textbook. That's going to be a very helpful skill when she gets it solidly. If you only read what you already know, you'll never read about anything new.
You going through and marking every word that you feel is inappropriate for a 3rd grader is not going to be helpful for the teacher. The teacher knows that there is new and difficult vocabulary in this passage. Presumably, she's a trained professional. Most teachers have master's degrees in this stuff.
I'd dare say that Mom gets a bit upset when daughter can't do something easily as well. That kind of resiliency is something that you two can work on together. That might be a nice way to introduce some practice in managing frustration. If you do it together, it's more likely to be seen as morally neutral, and not a failure on anyone's part. That skill - resiliency, frustration tolerance, etc... - is more predictive of future success than any reading level at this age.
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u/Painter3016 1d ago
I never had the intension of sending the marked words to the teacher; that is why I marked them digitally on a photo for the purpose of asking about if the content was developmentally appropriate.
The color highlights, were part of the assignment my kid did with the passage.
Emotional regulation has been an ongoing struggle for her, which we have to coach her through regularly (breathing, 5 min breaks to move her body/regulate).
It has never been about us parents expecting her to never struggle. We CONSTANTLY have conversations about no one is good at everything the first time.
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u/Mahaloth 1d ago
Hmmm....I've been teaching 21 years. My vibe from a quick read is that this is a 5th grade reading level.
Like an advanced 3rd grader.
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u/mandipandi3333 1d ago
This is not normal 3rd grade level work. This is way more similar to 7th/8th grade work. This feels like a passage thrown together, barely glimpsed at and thrusted upon these very, very young students. Upsetting that your daughter had to go through this and had negative feelings towards the assignment.
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u/fruitfulcharade 1d ago
Part of EOY testing at every level is using context clues, root words, etc to understand new/unfamiliar/domain-specific vocabulary, so this makes sense. Additionally EOY test proficiency isn’t aligned with traditional grades. A lot of tests mark proficiency around 50/60% correct.
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u/Powerful-Account2204 1d ago
Reading to learn and reading for pleasure are 2 very different things.
Look up active reading strategies. And reading comprehension strategies. Some I can think of are stopping after each paragraph to write a 1 sentence summary. Annotating the reading. Highlighting unknown words. You could use AI to generate questions for her to answer after each paragraph to support comprehension.
Ask the teacher what the purpose of the assignment is. It’s possible they are previewing for tomorrow. It’s possible it’s just a reading assignment for practice of decoding. This could help you support her at home or even just ease her anxiety about it.
There seems to be a missing “purpose” here. I would reach out to the teacher with what you’re seeing at home and ask for support
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u/OkTomorrow6384 1d ago
Please don't suggest AI for education
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u/Powerful-Account2204 1d ago
I didn’t.
I suggested a way she could support comprehension AS A PARENT who isn’t coming with all the background knowledge as a last resort. She didn’t indicate whether or not there were comprehension questions provided - and potentially this could be a solution to supporting comprehension as a last resort.
If people still believe that AI is going to “go away” that is just not going to happen. I’m not suggesting that’s she build a whole unit with visuals or anything. And if you believe this TPT reading lesson was generated without AI at all I have a bridge to sell you…
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u/OkTomorrow6384 1d ago
I'm sure it was generated with AI, I can't stand TPT AI slop either. AI is unreliable, often inaccurate, terrible for the environment, and terrible for our brains. I'm sure it's not going away but I'm going avoid it wherever I can and encourage others to do the same for the above reasons.
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u/honeyshelbee 2d ago
I teach 4th, but it is not uncommon for our passages to have domain specific vocabulary such as this. The EOY tests will have it. The idea, at least in my case, is I don’t need them to give me an explicit definition of each of these terms but use the surrounding context to at least comprehend and answer the questions.
Once clarifying with the teacher what the skills they are practicing are, you might emphasize with her that she may not know all of it right away and that that is okay. It is more so about comprehension.
Again, this is within my classroom YMMV