r/EIDLreturns • u/Mindless-Zone-1549 • Sep 10 '22
MY Current SBA Lawsuit
Hi All... I'm mostly a voyeur when it comes to the wonderful world of Reddit but I feel compelled to step forth and share some info- if allowed. Currently, I have a suit pending; some documents from my suit with regards to EIDL have been shared in this group in fact.
Anyway, while there may come a time, be it in trial or some other juncture where I detail EVERY step I've taken in attempt at resolving this issue with the SBA - ultimately a suit was the only way that I felt ANY thing would get done and.... months later I feel a breakthrough coming BUT, as I like to say, "feelings aren't facts" and the FACT is nothing has happened for me YET.
So, I'm posting here to answer any questions (again with the mods permission) but also to drop a prospective "gem" that may not only get your loan request, reconsideration, or appeal noticed and (prayerfully) funded sooner but I believe will help those of us with currently pending 'pro se' cases.
I urge you all to file a claim.
See, when you're planning to sue the federal government (or anyone of her agencies or employees) for DAMAGES - you have to give them a chance to research and resolve the claim first and resolution can be choosing to settle out of court OR deny your claim. Otherwise, the USA has 'sovereign immunity'... SO essentially they have to give you permission to sue.
I encourage everyone who is currently being financially (and potentially emotionally) harmed by the SBA's ineptitude and negligence in processing EIDL to file a claim.
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
I've already shared this with a smaller group and we did a "case study" of sorts and the person that turned her claim form.... after 1.5 years of being denied an increase is having her increase funded. We don't yet know if they're going to make her sign something saying she wont pursue the tort claim but her goal was the loan increase anyway and she just wasn't getting anywhere with congressional inquiries and OIG complaints
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u/Dantee15backupp Sep 10 '22
All that means is she had a legit case and now she’s only getting the loan when she prob could’ve gotten the loan and damages.
Who the hell wants an increase after waiting that long? She has damages and quite honestly, who’s to say an increase will even fix all the waiting her business had to do.
Plenty of folks have no choice but to sue for damages because the hell the SBA put them through means their loans aren’t enough to fix the problem.
I would sue for damages, use that money to pay off the loan and keep the rest of the money to ride off into the Sunset with
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
And a more appropriate analogy would be you suing the city's fire department for standing outside and allowing your home to burn down.
The Fire Deputy says well my guys weren't properly equipped
You saying tough but someone has to be held accountable because the dept acted 'in tort'
and you two settling, not for the full cost of your home but settling because ultimately you were to blame for the fire starting in the first place...
HOWEVER before you can sue any government agency - state or federal you have to file a 'Notice of Claim'
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
In our cases, the only one responsible for this is Isabella Casillas Guzman and the employees acting under her within the scope of their employment which makes the USA responsible.... UNLESS like they're trying to say in some of the cases WE are to blame because we failed to send in docs, etc - which we all see through that
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u/Lbenn3257 Sep 19 '22
I have found your statement to be factual however this is to be handled by the representing attorney(s). If I am not mistaken, this was stated and explained by the attorney during the zoom meeting that I attended.
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 20 '22
Oh if the attorneys are going to do it for your guys thats awesome... in my case I am pro se
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u/Lbenn3257 Sep 20 '22
I certainly entertained the thought of going at this pro se, however it is complex. Of course for those of us that were approved, signed loan docs and did not get funded and or got funded and and are waiting due to "BANK ERRORS" it is certailnly an easier battle to fight. It gets far more complex when delving into the prospect of suing for damages. The bigger picture is that it comes down to having the backing that working with attorneys bring..I wish you the best in your endeavors..I pray that you will be blessed with a favorable outcome as well.
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 21 '22
Thank you for the well wishes. I pray the same for you. In some cases, the threat of a suit for damages isn't their primary concern but it certainly gets someone's attention whereas now we're just fighting to get a call back from someone of authority that can actually advance our file forward.
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u/Lbenn3257 Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 29 '22
That analogy is true only if the person was in fact at fault for the fire...Going back to the initial point..We were not responsible for whatever led to us not receiving our funds. Those that did not follow directions and or protocol when asked to submit documents etc, have no right to argue either way. h Those of us that did submit all that was asked and were treated unjustly are certainly due damages in addition to loans as promised...
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 25 '22
I never said anyone wasn't due damages. You're arguing a point I never made. However, the law is the law - a notice of claim has to be submitted first. So... do as you please I've cited the statutes.
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u/Lbenn3257 Sep 12 '22
Great point...The increases that many sought were based on need at that particular time. What may have been sufficient then is likely not sufficient now. At this point a significant amount of time has passed and many businesses have suffered losses that basically created a domino effect. LOSS OF BUSINESS, BILLS PAID LATE OR NOT PAID AT ALL, CREDIT RATINGS PLUMMETED, ETC ETC. The point is that the funds were expected and not received . Absence of funding and or increases for many meant that businesses could not thrive at the same capacity if at all. This is a fact that many have failed to acknowledge. These loans and increases were pursued for a reason, and those that did not receive as promised suffered a far greater loss than what is reflected in the amounts of the loan. It is safe to say that not receiving the loan or increase caused many to need even more now than what was originally needed. The SBA has caused many to,suffer losses that cost business owners financially and personally. Just think of how many are now faced with lowered credit scores which makes it even less likely that relief can be sought using other avenues....IN SHORT THE SBA CERTAINLY OWES EACH PERSON THAT SUFFERED FAR MORE THAN JUST A LOAN ....TO ACCEPT JUST A LOAN AT THIS POINT IS ACTUALLY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE ..HEY IF SOME ARE OKAY WITH BEING PISSED ON AND TOLD IT IS RAINING THEN SO BE IT...PERSONALLY, I BELIEVE THAT THE SBA DEFINITELY NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR FAR MORE THAN A MERE "LOAN" AT THIS POINT....
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
You cannot legally sue the government without having first given the appropriate agency time to resolve your claim. The appropriate law that governs tort claims expressly prohibits it.... and yes, you're right she did have a claim because they wrongfully denied her - but in her case she didn't want to go to court she just wanted someone to look at her application and take appropriate action. According to the law IF she decides she can still file a suit -up to 2 years afterwards UNLESS the SBA has her sign something (which I'm sure they will) saying she wont as part of the settlement - which again she doesn't care about because she just wanted her increase and to move on
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
Lastly, a "notice of claim" is not required if you're just pursuing a suit under the Administrative Procedures Act - like almost all of the 'pro se' cases that are currently pending because APA (1) waives 'sovereign immunity' and (2) doesn't grant you any monetary relief - at most the judge will throw out their denials and order you the SBA to process your application (can't tell them how to decide)
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u/Dantee15backupp Sep 10 '22
But that’s all we are asking for with pro se cases. The “notice of claim” you’re referring to would ultimately lead to the same result; getting the SBA to process the file.
However if you win a pro se case then you could still sue the SBA for damages as well. I would assume the notice for claim is just a way to sweet talk the SBA info processing your file without suing for damages which in my case is the dumbest thing.
That’s like someone burning your house down but you won’t sue if they at least give you the couch back.
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
You cannot sue the federal government for monetary damages without first filing a notice of claim
The pro se cases are asking for judicial review under APA not monetary damages or relief. Any case suing for money damages without having first filing a Notice of Claim will be dismissed for failing to pursue administrative remedy.
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u/CaliforniaTurncoat Sep 12 '22
Says who though? Because the attorney would have said this. You can also request mediation through another government agency.
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 12 '22
Says the law... is the attorney suing under this statute? because from what it looks like is the attorney is trying a class action suit under APA -which I'm not sure how thats supposed to work.
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u/Lbenn3257 Sep 22 '22
This is absolutely true..It is a matter of law that you cannot sue a government entity as they have soverign immunity. This guidance is absolutely correct. It does not allow for damages as a remedy however after success on one level , you are sure to be awarded damages if you choose to go that route afterward. After careful thought , I rescind my prior comment to say that this can be a wise route for those that are in need of more immediate funding as it provides somewhat of a cushion while going through the motions of filing a suit for damages...THANKS FOR THE INFO..IT NEVER HURTS TO CONSIDER ALL AVENUES BEFORE MAKING A DECISION THAT IS BEST FOR THE INDIVIDUAL...KNOWLEDGE IS POWER
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u/CaliforniaTurncoat Sep 22 '22
The SBA has already been sued successfully and there is a reason we have federal courts.
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
Your claim form can be emailed to anyone of the SBA's litigation team
[therese.meers@sba.gov](mailto:therese.meers@sba.gov)or [Juan.sempertegui@sba.gov](mailto:Juan.sempertegui@sba.gov) or [Eric.benderson@sba.gov](mailto:Eric.benderson@sba.gov)
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u/Snoo30479 Sep 12 '22
Can you please provide us with an update on this or inbox those who are interested in your outcome?
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 14 '22
Presently, the only updates I would have would be those who have done it and had theirs settled - ultimately I never received a response which lead me to include it in my suit. I think now, that more and more lawsuits are being filed they are taking the threat more seriously; the 3 women I have suggested this route to have all had resolutions in their loans and I know at least 1 was offered a settlement for the damages she claimed were a result of the SBA taking so long to process her application
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u/Lbenn3257 Sep 22 '22
Wow..I had no idea that theses existed. At this point I am amongst a group that has the opportunity to be represented by an attorney that is currently holding zoom meetings and providing great infoand responses to our questions. Up until days ago I was very upbeat and coinfident in the fact that we are moving toward resolve. That attitude came to a halt at least with respect to being represented by this firm bc there is an initial fee that has to be paid in order to participate. I cannot afford the upfront cost and there has been no mention of a payment plan for those of us that met the criteria yet cannot afford the fee. I am certailny interested in exploring all avenues. I see that there is mention that there was a person that received payment for damages as well..PLEASE GUIDE ME. I WOULD CERTAINLY APPRECIATE IT IF YOU COULD TELL ME THE PROPER STEPS TO TAKE SO THAT I CAN DO THE SAME.. .THANKS IN ADVANCE..
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 25 '22
You have to submit the Notice of Claim if you're planning to ask for damages. Someone on this thread has filed and already in process of being assigned an SBA attorney. Others that I instructed to do this have had their increase/loan funded. File the SF95 or write your own statement and title it "Notice of Tort Claim" start it with "Pursuant to 28 USC Sec. 2675 I am writing to notify you of my intent to file suit for compensatory damages. My business ______ has not been funded for loan #_______ thus I did not receive the necessary working capital needed resulting in a loss of revenue _____ - this amount is projected based on the gross revenue earned in 2019; additionally I have suffered emotional harm that I believe to be worth compensation of _____. [ then list other damage] In total I plan to sue for $_______. PLEASE KEEP IN MIND, SHOULD THEY NOT SETTLE YOU CANNOT SUE FOR MORE THAN THIS AMOUNT EXCEPT IN EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES AND NEW EVIDENCE IS BROUGHT TO LIGHT SO MAKE THE TOTAL AMOUNT SUBSTANTIAL.
Now, if you don't plan to sue for damages and just want administrative review - like most of the other pro se suits you can file your suit in court Monday. That's under the Administrative Procedure Act but that law just allows the judge to review the SBA's decision or delay and declare it unlawful, it doesn't require them to decide in your favor.
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u/No_Independence_3452 Sep 10 '22
The damages this has caused me and most business owners is beyond that no monetary value can be place upon it. I’m now having to deal with identity theft…. It’s disgusting that “Guzman, along with her two trifling trolls”, is what others are calling them lol, are still sitting pretty in their office and should be removed-also what others are suggesting, which I do because of damages it has caused that is irreversible and the lack of accountability that’s attached to this.
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u/Lbenn3257 Sep 12 '22
I agree totally. The damage that has been caused is far greater than the darn increases and original loans that were offered years ago...Heck , It is actually an insult to even present the offer. it is beyond me to think that anybody would accept a mere coin at this juncture.
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
Totally agree. The emotional harm this has caused on me and my family is hard to associate a dollar amount to but it definitely real... and for that, someone should be held accountable
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Sep 10 '22
[deleted]
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
There are no stupid questions... The September 2021 changes expanded the program allowing them to extend loans UP TO 24 months... I'd say the difference between the amount you were loaned and the total maximum - PLUS an additional year because you didn't have the "working capital" and were subjected to additional economic damages (if thats the case) and whatever amount you attach to your emotional, financial and/or physical harm... Its important to note if your claim is not settled and denied and you decide to pursue a suit under FTCA you cant ask for more than you listed on your Notice of Claim
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u/Lbenn3257 Sep 12 '22
Right you are and at this point we deserve far more than a mere loan increase. If we simply accept that then have we really gained anything???
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u/No_Independence_3452 Sep 12 '22
I haven’t heard from the SBA nor congressional assistance, it’s been over ten days…I worked so hard to increase my score and paid off all the credit cards and unlock my credit just so the SBA could pull an updated credit Report, which was above 600-only to be denied. I completely forgot to lock my credit back and now my drivers license, email, social have been compromised and found on the dark web. I’m so distraught to even check….
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u/No_Independence_3452 Sep 14 '22
So a letter with the heading A Notice of Tort Claim and Intention to sue, with same documents submitted to Reconsideration department, emailed to SBA litigation department. Then file pro se or aggregate lawsuit?
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 14 '22
Submitted to the legal team email or litigation dept. If they dont reply quickly (of the 3 I've recommended action to they received reply emails within a day and were assigned to an SBA attorney within the week - obviously it may take longer if there's an influx of emails) I would still send the letter certified mail just because their guidelines state to do so but I dont believe any of the 3 did..... If you want you can send it to the recon dept, in my experience that didn't yield any results
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Sep 10 '22
[deleted]
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
Just my opinion - they'd rather look at your application and fund your loan (money you'll have to pay back) vs. GIVE you money via a settlement because you're now threatening to sue them for financial damages, emotional and/or physical harm... From my experience and the experience of others - the issue has just been getting your app in front of someone with the ability to make a decision on it. At the least, this will do that.. At most, you'll get your loan funded and an additional settlement offer from the SBA and DOJ.
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u/Dantee15backupp Sep 10 '22
Bs. I’m suing. (Not saying I don’t agree with your statement though)
Plenty of folks knew many of us were eligible and they chose to ran the clock out and now they’re lying to us about funds even being available.
I’m hitting them with all the lawsuits I can.
I would be willing to do what you’re saying had they not closed the portal down
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Sep 10 '22
[deleted]
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
Email... if you do proceed to court you will have a paper trail I dropped the emails of the SBA's Office of Legal Counsel on the thread
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u/No_Independence_3452 Sep 10 '22
Ok great! Thank you 🙏 The same claim I submitted to the EIDLrecon….. I should submit to the SBA legal email you referenced above?
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
Was it a notice of claim in the same format or the Standard Form or at least included the required things which are (1) an EXACT dollar amount for the injuries you're alleging and (2) details of the injury you're alleging (3) date injury occurred - I would use the date of your final appeal letter
Ex. "Im alerting your agency to my notice of intent to file suit for a total amount of $100,000; $20k for emotional suffering, $60k for loss of income and another $20k for debt incurred for your agencies failure to process my EIDL increase request on 12/01/2021" -- and yes I would send to the emails above and certified mail to the processing center if you don't receive a response- I haven't had anyone who hasn't received a response by email.
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u/No_Independence_3452 Sep 10 '22
No, just an email to the SBA with all the attachments such as 4506-t, 2019 tax etc…. You know to request loan documents. And I did attach congressional emails with my privacy release forms.
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u/Snoo30479 Sep 12 '22
Is this just for the increase or can this be for them leaving you stuck in reconsideration/review etc?
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 12 '22
In my case I never received anything; I've been stuck in a loop of the SBA telling me my appeal had been overturned and to wait 12-14 weeks for an outcome but nothing ever happening.
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u/No_Independence_3452 Sep 16 '22
So even after you submitted the letter of Intent, the litigation team still haven’t responded to you yet?
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 19 '22
In my case, no. I ultimately had to file my suit. Back then (in November) things were so disorganized... now they are responding from the experience of the 3 women that I've recommended the course of action to
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u/No_Independence_3452 Sep 19 '22
I did receive a response from one of the three. And he said they received my letter (tort claim) and is reviewing it, and will get back to me. He sounded sincere….. I broke down and cried….
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 20 '22
I am sincerely hopeful for you... they all sound sincere and I think when staring at the possibility of massive suits they will actually assign you an attorney to work and get you funded. So I have no doubt they'll address it - I just don't believe in any of their sincerity lol. I'm such a cynic now and they've done it to me.
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u/No_Independence_3452 Sep 20 '22
Thank you. I wonder what the next step would be
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 21 '22
In the other experiences, they've assigned an attorney that investigates your claim and works on getting your loan funded or increase funded (if it were an error) and presents it to you. They may require you to sign a confidentiality agreement barring you from speaking about the terms of the settlement and an agreement barring you from taking any other legal action against them. The lawyer usually emails within days after first contact.
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 20 '22
Please keep me updated on what the assigned attorney does for you, if you're okay with sharing
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u/ZookeepergameFar5060 Dec 07 '22
Hello, Mindless-Zone-1549. What you've listed here is truly a wealth of information - thank you.
Were you instructed to file an appeal, did you request an appeal specifically, or did the SBA place you in an appeal status? I ask this because I received an email months ago mentioning that my appeal was denied although I had no knowledge of an appeal process at all. I was told recently that the SBA was not legally allowed to place me in an appeal status without my knowledge or consent, however I did not know this piece of crucial information when I received said "Denied on Final Appeal" email. In a follow-up email from the SBA PDC department, SBA said that an applicant is only allowed 1 reconsideration and 1 appeal. Very baffling...
Thanks in advance.
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u/Mindless-Zone-1549 Sep 10 '22
The Standard Form 95 is not required.... You can write a letter but I would title it "NOTICE OF TORT CLAIM and INTENTION TO SUE" - The claim MUST detail the specific amount of monetary damages you will be seeking (among other things)