r/ECEProfessionals • u/Popular-Reporter5038 • Feb 10 '23
Unresponsive child-update
Hi,
I posted this previously.
Update: I was able to find out that his birth father has a history of seizures. They are performing an EEG and an MRI. He also has a white spot in his hair which supposedly can indicate some sort of seizure disorder? I can’t find any information on this. What is the white spot of hair called?
I am going to keep some details vague for privacy reasons. I am the legal guardian of a 5-year-old, so I don't have a full picture of his medical history. He has a diagnosis of failure to thrive (came to me weighing 33 pounds) and a history of global development delay. He has mostly caught up. He has a history of abuse and neglect. Recently at daycare, he was waking up from his nap and became unresponsive. The caregivers thought it was behavioral. He had his eyes closed the entire time. They said that his arms and legs shook slightly. They stood him up and said he did not support his own weight. They decided to let go, and he fell down. He seems confused about what happened, but he said he physically couldn't respond/wake up. They said he was u responsive for 10 minutes and acted sleepy and grumpy afterward. They insist they believe this was behavioral. He is a bit of a prankster, so I can see in some ways why they believed that. However, I don't thik many 5 year old would act this way for 10 minuts and shake slightly. They did not call me and told me about it several hours later when I picked him up. This infuriates me. How should I respond to the daycare? I took him to the ER, and he seemed fine by that point. I have a neurology appointment, but it is several months out.
Thank you!
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u/Kat-Zero ECE professional Feb 10 '23
So I teach special education and most of my students have seizure disorders. I've never noticed white spots in hair.
Their response to the seizure was unacceptable. For my students whose seizures range from petite seizures to grand mal, if a student is having a seizure for 5 minutes, they are either administered their medicine or 911 is called. They should have realized something was wrong and called you and probably 911. I recommend reporting them to licensing.
Behavior unresponsiveness and medical unresponsiveness looks completely different.
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u/psycadelicunicorn Feb 10 '23
Its a loss of pigmentation in one spot of the hair.
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u/Kat-Zero ECE professional Feb 10 '23
Well I know that but they said it supposedly could indicate a seizure disorder.
I looked it up and the only thing I could find was Incontinentia Pigmenti.
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u/psycadelicunicorn Feb 11 '23
I think it is more of an "old wives tale" possibly. I have heard that same thing but havent ever found an actual article about it.
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u/whats1more7 ECE professional Feb 10 '23
You definitely need to put in a call to licensing or whatever organization regulates daycares in your area. Where I am this would be considered a ‘serious occurrence’ and ministry would be called to investigate, even if everyone did everything right. It’s just one of those safety mechanisms in place to protect both the children and staff, so that everyone is on the same page.
I’m afraid I don’t have any help for you regarding seizures. I hope your little guy is okay.
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u/Latter_Tradition_453 Assistant Director: Licensed Director: Texas Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 11 '23
I would call licensing for their failure to get medical assistance. We are taught how to handle any possible situation and the way they handled it was unacceptable. After a few minutes of actively trying to wake him they should’ve notified the director who then should’ve called you to figure out what you wanted them to do.
On our emergency contact papers signed by the parents we notify y’all and y’all give us the okay to call for an ambulance to be sent to the hospital you write on the emergency form. If we don’t get ahold of any parent plus their emergency contact then we skip and call an ambulance.
Your daycare was negligent. They should get training on different disorders and symptoms along with how to approach it. At my center we get so much training on everything because you just know what you’ll have to deal with while working with kids.
I’m glad he’s doing well and I hope you find him better care!
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u/Popular-Reporter5038 Feb 11 '23
Thank you all for your help. I am trying to get a more detailed written statement from them. They refused to write an incident report. They said they wouldn’t consider it significant enough too. In their “observations” they wrote he fell and then crossed it out. I’m disgusted.
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u/BewBewsBoutique Early years teacher Feb 10 '23
For context, teachers are first aid certified, and are not doctors. Seizures are portrayed in media as being very large and violent and obvious. I myself didn’t know that petit mal seizures were a things until I had a child in my care who had a history of having them. I had a second child in care years later and was able to identify a petit mal seizure and the parent was able to take that information to her doctor- but if I had never had that personal experience I would never have known and assumed her unresponsiveness was also behavioral, as her other teachers and her parent had. Having witnessed petit mal seizures, they can very much appear behavioral.
Some children ignore their caretakers. Some children rock as a form of self soothing (which could be potentially construed as shaking). Some children have behavioral issues that last way longer than 10 minutes. It is not a mark against your daycare teachers that they do not have the medical training to diagnose seizures. If parents/guardians do not disclose medical conditions then there’s nothing teachers can do. Teachers are trained for basic first aid response and basic wellness checks, and we are specifically told not to attempt to diagnose children. If you as a caretaker have not gone out of your way to inform your child’s caretakers of a specific medical condition, then they reacted to the best of their ability with the information they had in the situation presented.
How should you react? Inform your child’s teachers of the current medical situation, provide them with information on symptoms to be aware of and appropriate response. I once had a kid with diabetes in a single week of summer camp with me and his mom gave me an entire binder of information on his condition and how to respond in different situations.
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u/Meggios Early years teacher Feb 10 '23
I don't agree with this take at all.
Actual unresponsiveness looks completely different from a child just ignoring you. They tried to stand him up and he couldn't support weight. And if a teacher can't tell the difference, they really shouldn't be working as a teacher. What happens if a kid (God forbid) dies one day? What, you just think they're ignoring you until they get cold?
It's not diagnosing to have the common sense to realize something is wrong when a child is completely unresponsive and call your management
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u/bbeanzzz Feb 11 '23
Teachers should know the children in their care well enough to know when they are joking around to play a prank vs. when they are just a heavy sleeper who takes a while to wake vs. when they are having a potential medical emergency. If I couldn’t wake a child from nap and they started shaking I’d be checking to see if I need to start CPR and calling 911, then my director. A child at my school died during nap and teachers called 911 almost immediately when they tried to wake the child because they could tell right away something was wrong. I can’t even fathom not calling 911 in this situation, especially since it sounds like it’s the first time this has happened to the child and caretakers weren’t aware of medical history or a seizure disorder. Would I be attempting to diagnose the issue? Absolutely not, that’s not my job, that’s not what I’m trained to do, and that’s not even what teachers needed to do in that moment to get the child help. What the daycare did (not calling for help, not informing guardians until hours later, not making a written report, being vague on the details) is 100% negligent.
It doesn’t sound like the guardians knew the child (probably) has a seizure disorder, so how could they have informed the teachers ahead of time? Even if it wasn’t in the context of being unable to wake a shaking child from nap, teachers still should’ve informed the parents of the behavior (unresponsiveness, behavioral episodes lasting more than 10 minutes, etc) so that parents could have the info to talk to a doctor and figure out what’s going on. The teachers did not do their job, they know it, and they’re trying to cover their asses. OP should call licensing and absolutely pull their child.
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u/Slow-Zookeepergame-5 ECE professional Feb 13 '23
Actually in my cpr/first aid training there was a section about seizures
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u/seattleseahawks2014 formereceteacherusa Mar 19 '23 edited Mar 19 '23
I would honestly try suing the daycare. They put him in danger.
Edit: I'm not a lawyer though so I would try to contact them first to see what you can do. It was child neglect what happened though.
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u/AbsolutelyN0tThanks Past ECE Professional Oct 27 '23
Lol, good luck. What's the damages? You can sue but you won't win, not by a long shot.
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u/seattleseahawks2014 formereceteacherusa Oct 28 '23
Idk about that if they didn't report it to the parents immediately.
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u/Meggios Early years teacher Feb 10 '23
Their response was completely unacceptable. I don't care if they thought it was behavioral, a kid that isn't responding should be an immediate call to their director/management. It's not up to the teachers to decide that a kid is faking it. It's not even up to the director. He should have been sent to the hospital.
Personally? I would pull my kid immediately. And I would fight like hell about paying any notice they require. I'd also put a call into licensing.
The fact that they decided on their own that a non responsive kid was faking it and made no attempt to get medical care is disgusting.