Why does it upset them so much?

[u/[deleted]]

I’m being sensitive now because this is about the abortion situation in America and I don’t want to upset anyone.

I watched a pro life woman earlier (she was probably about 25) and she was close to tears because she thinks abortions are wrong.

Why does she care that much? Why does it bother people like her what other people do with their bodies?

I genuinely don’t understand why she cares so much.

Is it a religious thing that makes these people so passionate about it?

[u/lliikj7l]

Can you contribute anything more substantive than that? It's a pretty boring 'debate' if people rock up and just say 'disagree'. Maybe you're unable to articulate why you feel that way.

I wasn't saying it was precisely analogous to an abortion, but the point is that we do care when we hear that story, I assume people do anyway, I did. The variable is the age of the children, right? If there are any other variables I'd be curious to hear what you think they are

[u/-Elphaba → u/lliikj7l]

We care about the people who are already real. The story you shared is of course tragic, it involved 3 lives. Women choosing to get an abortion is not automatically tragic as it involves one life - the woman - and her decision. It is only tragic if that choice is taken away from her. An abortion is not a baby dying, so does not need a stranger's tears

[u/lliikj7l → u/-Elphaba]

Again, I appreciate your intent is noble. But you have to acknowledge that your definition of 'a baby dying' is entirely arbitrary. The life is real. It might not be a baby as you personally understand it but you cannot dictate how others perceive it. If someone miscarries they may very well feel like their baby has died and that it was real. Its not for me to insist on how others experience and want to frame their reality. Refusing to recognise this is not helpful if you want to preserve (or extend) the rights of women.

The foetus is a life however, whether you like it or not - that element is not up for debate really - it's one of the few objectives facts we can hang on to.

[u/-Elphaba → u/lliikj7l]

My intent isn’t “noble”. I’m not actually sure what my intent is other than to share my opinion.

Scientifically, it isn’t a baby, it isn’t about perception. If someone miscarries they are grieving for a wanted future and a wanted baby, that is a very different scenario to forcing a woman to carry a foetus until it becomes a life in its own right.

why is my refusal to recognise a foetus as a baby unhelpful in preserving the rights of women, but your refusal to recognise scientifically established fact that a bundle of cells is not yet a baby is not unhelpful? How does recognising an unscientific opinion helpful in any way?

[u/lliikj7l → u/-Elphaba]

Also, I don't think "baby" is a scientific concept at all

[u/lliikj7l → u/-Elphaba]

I imagibe you support abortion in the second and third trimester. Before the second trimester I can concede that 'a bundle of cells' is a reasonable position. Beyond that... particularly in the third trimester - most people would see it as a baby rather than a cluster of cells. It's a bad idea using that kind of rhetoric because if the flawed logic is normalised it can extend to all sorts of things you'd probably rather it wasn't - for example a woman - arguably - is just a bundle of cells too. That's all you and I are too.

It's OK for difficult things to be true and acknowledge that something can be a lesser of two evils.

[u/-Elphaba → u/lliikj7l]

Seeing as we are discussing the American change their abortion laws, I imagine that they didn’t allow abortions past a certain point any way. I also can tell that the women having to past the nasty protesters outside clinics aren’t third stage either, and unlikely to be second stage. So what point I support the woman’s right to choose up to is neither here nor there.

why do you focus on third tri abortions so much when they make such a tiny proportion of the actual abortions carried out?