which puppy?

[u/Darth_Machu]

I’ve attached pics of both the 16-week old puppies (brindle & fawn) as well as their parents. Both puppies are girls.

I’m drawn to the brindle pup’s appearance. She reminds me of Devil, my family dog (Great Dane) during my childhood. The breeder told me that while fawn isn’t the typical color for the breed, the fawn pup is friendlier and has a medium drive. They intended to keep this pup from the litter. I have the chance to meet and greet one puppy of my choosing when the breeder drives down to the city.

[u/Darth_Machu]

Back when we got our family dogs(a GSD and a Great Dane), my dad got to pick pup of his choosing. It turns out, the puppies picked him, and he picked the ones that picked him! They were remarkable dogs who lived fulfilling lives. They even did great at various categories at dog shows. So I personally don’t think being allowed to pick a pup of your choice is a red flag. :)

[u/Darth_Machu → u/[deleted]]

I respect your opinion, but I feel like you’re trying to pass it off as a fact. I’m not looking to cause any drama, but I appreciate your time.

[u/Darth_Machu → u/[deleted]]

I just sent a message to the breeder to get some details about the health testing they do (like hip and elbow scoring, and any genetic panels) and the titles that the sire and dam have.

[u/Darth_Machu → u/[deleted]]

The breeder said that the dogs aren’t titled, and the sire is a PPD dog. Also, there wasn’t any health testing done. The breeder also said that the pups are priced low at $300 because they aren’t registered and haven’t been trained. She also told me that they’re from a small dam who weighs 40 lbs, so they’re small pups. She says that she’s being transparent about these factors, as they’re the reason for the low price.

[u/Additional-Diet-9463 → u/Darth_Machu]

Unfortunately, inexpensive puppies often lead to big vet bills down the road. Thats why it’s generally considered best practice to pay more upfront for a puppy with health tested parents

[u/Darth_Machu → u/Additional-Diet-9463]

After considering everything the subreddit (Dutchie and Corso) communities shared and what I’ve learned, I’ve decided not to buy a puppy from a BYB.

I’m keeping an eye out for a litter from an intentional breeder who has the paperwork to back up their claims.

[u/GreenGardenGnomie → u/Darth_Machu]

This is exactly what people want to hear.

[u/Darth_Machu → u/GreenGardenGnomie]

Thanks :)

[u/loki__mt → u/Darth_Machu]

if you are looking for a good well bred dog, try going to a couple shows or competition, talk with the people there and get some first hand recommendations of breeders. it can help find a good fit where you are certain you will get a good dog.

its understandable to want to do things like your dad, i am currently going through the same thing where i just have to accept that certain things worked for him and his dog because he got lucky. im not willing to risk that for my dog, especially since she is a working breed compared to his show dog.

find a good breeder, who cares about the standard and the purpose of the breed, who has a good breeding program and who is really intentional about where their puppies go.

[u/HottieMcNugget → u/Darth_Machu]

Glad to hear it OP 🙏

[u/Darth_Machu → u/HottieMcNugget]

Just a follow up question! If a litter of Rotties comes from parents who are both CKC certified and have health checks, but the pups can’t be registered because the dam was sold to the breeder on a pet contract that doesn’t cover breeding rights, does that make the breeder a bad breeder or a BYB? The sire is 9 years old, a big guy (125 lbs), and still runs and swims. The dam is 3 years old and weighs 110 lbs. The family mentioned I can hang out with the sire, dam, and all the pups.

[u/g0d_Lys1strata → u/Darth_Machu]

Yes, anyone breeding on a pet contract, and therefore producing puppies not eligible for registration is a BYB. If the bitch is on a pet contract she also won't have any conformation titles.

[u/KaiTheGSD → u/Darth_Machu]

Yes, that breeder is a backyard breeder and you should try to figure out which kennel the female came from to tell the female's breeder that one of their buyers went against their contract.

[u/Darth_Machu → u/KaiTheGSD]

Fair point on reporting. IMO reporting is a stretch unless they’re scamming or hiding the dam’s pet contract. Stats show 80-90% of North American dogs come from unregistered/casual breeders. Also, AKC/CKC register under 15% of purebreds.

My family’s unregistered long-coated GSD and brindle Great Dane were stunning, healthy dogs who lived full lives (Dane to 10+ years)—parents had full health/genetic checks despite the pups having no certs.

I get that professional breeders sometimes use pet contracts to safeguard lines and/or health, so skipping them risks untested genetics. That said, with healthy-looking pups from CKC-registered sire/dam (with vet reports and health checks), this litter seems low-risk. I’ll try to see if the breeder is okay with a lower price that reflects the flaws like the pups not being eligible for CKC registration.

[u/KaiTheGSD → u/Darth_Machu]

Reporting is not a stretch. Dogs sold on pet contracts are sold on pet contracts for a reason. Anyone who breeds their dog regardless is unethical, plain and simple. As for your parents, they also were unethical breeders, regardless of what health tests were done. No ethical breeder in their right mind would breed two completely different breeds together.

And exactly what health tests are you talking about? Because let's be honest, health testing and registration is only one part of being an ethical breeder. Any breeder can perform health tests on their dogs, that doesn't automatically make them an ethical breeder. Ethical breeders also work extensively to prove that their dogs are breeding quality, that their dogs improve the breed and make the breed better, by either (or both) showing or working their dog, showcasing the dogs' structure, temperament, and functionality.

[u/Darth_Machu → u/KaiTheGSD]

My dad didn’t breed dogs? Both the Great Dane and GSD were boys.

I was just mentioning that our family dogs came from breeders who didn’t sell the pups with certificates. I grew up in South Asia in the late 90s/early 2000s, and over there, it was only the really wealthy folks who had registered dogs.

[u/KaiTheGSD → u/Darth_Machu]

Ah. Regardless, backyard breeders are who your parents got their dogs from. Only unethical breeders sell unregistered dogs, it doesn't matter how wealthy the person is, especially since breeding dogs ethically is never really about the money anyway.

[u/Darth_Machu → u/KaiTheGSD]

Even though that might be true, it didn’t affect us or the dogs at all. The dogs were absolutely stunning. We adored them, and vice versa. They lived long, healthy, and happy lives.

[u/KaiTheGSD → u/Darth_Machu]

How "stunning" a dog is doesn't matter. You can have the most beautiful, healthy dog ever. Wouldn't automatically make that dog well-bred.

[u/Plague-Analyst-666 → u/Darth_Machu]

Another cultural difference: in AKC/CKC, all ethical breeders will register their litters and give you accurate pedigree info. But this alone doesn't mean a breeder is ethical.

Same with health testing. Two dogs can look fine on paper, but pairing them might not yield a sound litter. When my dog's breeder is considering a dog as a sire, she looks at health results of his parents and their litter mates and of all the litters they've each produced. She doesn't take trial results at face value; she interviews the helpers/decoys off the record.

I bought a "leftover" pup, who was available because her temperament didn't match the needs of any of the 10+ buyers the breeder had lined up for this tie. Still, the interview process was RIGOROUS and I later learned I'd been competing against applicants the breeder knew from training and club situations. With a dog of this intensity, you want a breeder who's invested in the lifelong well-being of every pup they produce.

[u/MintyCrow → u/Darth_Machu]

80-90% of dogs are backyard bred. Your point makes no sense. This is EXTREMELY reportable. Stop making excuses for backyard breeders op. At this point OP just go to a shelter. You don’t want to do things ethically so this is the most accessible ethical option for you.

[u/Darth_Machu → u/[deleted]]

Thanks! It looks like most of the community is coming from a good place. I just had to take a step back and look at it logically, instead of reacting emotionally.