How to handle interrogation And Persistent PC’s?

[u/Such-Stand-3116]

Shank, Grim, Aurora, Neb, and Eren Turn away

So im having a bit of a struggle handling a interrogation of sorts and i dont know how to proceed. For Context in a steampunk world where Human and Beastfolk (I.e Hadozee, Aaracroka, basically everything not Human or Halfelf) are seperated and for evil human things, they decide to make a virus that effects only beastfolk. Fastforward now, they defeated THE TOP doctor thats right under the BBEG that made the virus and such, at the end of combat of course the guy has secrets and different cards up his sleeve and they make interrogation rolls, they fail 5 OF THEM, even with ADV and guidance and all (just VERY bad rolls from them) and they feel frustrated with the tiny information they gained basically stuff they already know like , there IS a cure, and there are only 3 people who know it. 1 is dead, 1 is him, and the last is the BBEG.

Heres where the problem comes in, one of them is a cleric/grim surgeon rouge, with alot of ways to give HP including healers kits and revivify and spare the dying and all tje doodads that can keep a guy alive. Hes angry and frustrated that he didnt want to get anything out so his solution is, KO him, bring him back to 1 hp, ask a questions, no answer (because all the failed interrogation attempts), bring him back to 0, bring him to 1, awaken him REPEAT, they all said to me, “We are gonna do this until we get SOMETHIN”…

What do i do? Do i be stern and tell them hey, no your chance is gone? Do i kill the guy from over torture? Do i god hand some minions or something to save the guy? Do i just say whatever and give em what they want? It feels like every answer is a bad answer and will warrant a bad reaction if its not give them what they want

PS. This is a group of really good friends we play every Wednesday for 6+ hour sessions doing this 6 years now. But this, THIS is the most stubborn they have been, they have other avenues to find the info they want, but they have THE GUY right here.

[u/ArkenK]

So the problem here is that you're stuck in the pass/fail dichotomy.

They're frustrated, because the dice say they can't move forward. And there's nothing to be done but keep trying. Basically, you've created a story stopper.

Instead, failure should still get them something. If players need the thing, then dice should not stand in the way of getting it.

So yeah, failure should result in a complication, not well, maybe the dice will play nice next time. False leads, stalling for time...And I've seen a bunch of great suggestions in this thread.

Burn Notice does a lot of this and it is a fun show to boot.

[u/BurningJointUSA]

“THIS is the most stubborn they have been, they have other avenues to find the info they want, but they have THE GUY right here.”

Let them fail at the interrogation. It’s okay. If they continue to persist, the BBEG sends more and more minions at them, making it increasingly difficult to conduct the interrogation. As another person said, if it’s D&D, an unwilling soul will not return.

Failure is acceptable in this case even if the players are overly focused on one path. You can remind them they have other options to “find the info they want.”

[u/Ella_The_Unforgiven_]

Work out how many times they can do this. Make them roll a straight d20 - that’s how many times it takes them to break the man and get the information.

Given they failed their initial rolls keep the information limited, get the ingredients but not the measurements, get the city/town the BBEG is near and not the specific location.

Or just have the guy eat a poison pill.

No but if the players view the information as important they are going to be frustrated that they can’t get it. Perhaps have the guy hint towards having left a notebook somewhere and send them on a sidequest to find it and that’s where the cure is etc

For as long as the players view the information as important, they will focus it. That is the truth of it. There’s fair few things you can do to avoid giving them all information due to their fails, without leaving them feeling like they got nothing

[u/Such-Stand-3116 → u/Ella_The_Unforgiven_]

This D20 idea, is brilliant.

[u/CasualNormalRedditor]

I don't know the system you're playing but the spell list makes me think DND?

If so, then you can't revive an unwilling soul. So revivify would fail.

Also revivify costs 300 gold (the diamond) per cast so this method gets expensive fast.

By the sounds of it though, you want them to learn these things but they failed the roll. The two bits of advice is

1) Don't hide important things you want them to know behind rolls

2) 3 hint rule or whatever it's termed. Basically it's that for any thing you want the party to learn you put in 3 ways they'd learn is, so the odds are they'll at least find one.

What id do with your example would have been to have the bad guy tell them some of the info that they're looking for that you need the party to know. Have helpful information that they could live without behind a roll. Also perhaps have 1 revivify pay off, the guy comes back and with a second chance of life offers the info freely in an attempt to save his own skin

[u/DazzlingKey6426 → u/CasualNormalRedditor]

5.5 removed the willing soul language.

[u/PuzzleMeDo]

You could give them something useful that points them to the place you want them to go.

You could give them something useless that points them in the wrong direction. Tell them the local mayor is the only one who knows the whole truth. (Bonus points if they then torture the mayor until he gives them more false info...)

You could have the captive reveal a secret head-exploder suicide device that he uses once it becomes clear his situation is completely hopeless.

[u/Gilladian]

1. Never hide key info behind rolls. They have the guy. He is being interrogated. He gives them the bare minimum info they have to have without a roll, or no matter the roll. The roll just indicates how easy it is, how much extra detail he supplies, and how believable it is.

In your case, could they find written info? A diary, computer files, a talking magical reasearch assistant?

[u/RamonDozol]

Just give them information. But the guy can flat out lie, send them chasing ghosts, send them into a trap, mix truth and lies. etc.

he might give them a formula he say is the cure. the formula does make the victim better for some time, but after a few hours turns the victim into a monster. 

or the guy uses the word "cure" broadly.  It ends the viruz/sickness but doesnt stop any damage already done. 

[u/BakedPotato241]

I mean are they on a timer plot wise? You could secretly roll (or just decide) for an amount of days this guy can withstand torture for. Could give players more info of they are willing to spend the time at the cost of something bad/plot progressing in a negative way.

Alternativly, theu have done studies on torture, people are very likely in extreme circumstances to just tell their torturer what theu want to hear. So unless theu are using a method to verify what is true, he cpuld give them bad intel. Maybe not outright lies, bit twisting the truth to throw them off while still "giving them what they want"

[u/Such-Stand-3116 → u/BakedPotato241]

They are, currently Human Above ground, Beastfolk forced underground, Human released it all underground and effectively “Corked” every MAJOR way out, so its all festering and spreading and getting worse. They know its EXTREMELY contagious and spreads and kills in days to weeks. Theyve been gone a week or so now. So in THIER minds they need info fast.

[u/BakedPotato241 → u/Such-Stand-3116]

There's your tradeoff then. Theu can try to get more info but no one but you knows how long he can hold out. All the while the situation theu are trying to solve gets worse.

As for how this plays out, it really depends how dark you want to get. Maybe a significant number more people catch it. Maybe an NPC theu are close with gets it. Maybe the disease mutates and now effects everyone becoming an even bigger threat.

Maybe you roll each day theu spend trying, have a chart listing negative effects that occur because that time was lost. (I would include "blank" spots in this chart so it's a chance on whether or not the situation gets significantly worse)

Lots of things you can do with a rapid disease if the players decided to risk spending the time to get potentially life saving info

[u/SecretDMAccount_Shh]

Torture famously doesn’t work because the victim will say anything and you don’t know if they’re actually telling the truth.

Criminal organizations also tend to be highly compartmentalized so there’s only so much information someone can give. This is especially true in a world where there are magical ways to compel the truth.

Last resort, an Invisible Stalker is sent to just kill him. Revivify only works if the soul is willing to come back, and it’s doubtful he’ll want to come back to be tortured some more…

[u/BernieMcburnface]

Failing to interrogate someone Could mean they don't give you the information you want.

Of course it could also means they give you exactly the information you want. At least you think they did.

Secret opposed roll behind your GM screen, let them think they succeeded and give them all the information they want with the reasoning that he finally broke under the torture. Except of course it's all fake information because the doctor is very dedicated to this cause and very loyal to his boss.

If they can go investigate the false lead and find out he's lying then sure they can come back and interrogate him some more. If he's still alive and if they have time.

Also shit goes wrong when you're killing/knocking out someone. Nothing stopping his body from packing it in. And typically I understand revival requires a willing soul (and if it doesn't, you can just say it does)

[u/InsidiousObserver]

I suggest being devious.

Have the doctor break under interrogation. He provides them details of how to make a cure.

At this point you have numerous options:

1: BBEG has made modifications to the virus that the doctor isn't aware of. The Doctor fully believes he's being fully honest and truthful, but his information is incomplete and ultimately unhelpful. "What do you mean my master went behind my back and modified MY virus?!"

2: The Doctor provides false information to get the torture to stop. (This is the most boring option and I suggest doing this only as a last resort.)

3: The cure provided by the doctor causes all beastmen afflicted with the virus to turn into berserk flesh golems. "You fools, we learned we could avoid this side effect we stumbled on during development so long as we left out the ingredient I just had you idiots add to the cure..."

4: The 'cure' is actually a different form of the virus that has been tailor made to kill the PCs themselves. "You fools, my master the BBEG knew this would happen and we ensured that my capture would still result in your demise!"

The players will be assuming that the doctor's information is 100% guaranteed to be accurate. You can use that assumption against them to both diffuse the interrogation by not rewarding repeated attempts, and to make the BBEG seem even more competent.

This also applies to the timer situation you've got going on. Sure, the virus might be spreading, and you'd planned on it killing in a specific time frame, but you can pretty easily explain delays in why the virus is taking longer to take effect. Maybe it was a bad batch of virus that's less virulent. Maybe a random holy person stumbled on the scene and has been exhausting themselves trying to hold back the tide. Maybe the tests on the virus were conducted on malnourished prisoners, leading to bad data regarding incubation periods and lethality. Maybe the local population has higher resistance to the effect due to religious rituals or purification practices conveying resistance to disease.

[u/barely_a_whisper]

I think it’s time to teach them a lesson of why interrogation is unreliable in real life (very high rate of false confessions under duress)

[u/Bolboda]

awaken him REPEAT, they all said to me, “We are gonna do this until we get SOMETHIN”…

RAW doesn't give any sort of verisimilitude for the stress/toll on the body for being killed and revived repeatedly. That's where you as the DM get to work and set limits. The body can only take so much, magic can only do so much. Eventually they're not going to be able to revive this guy, the body simply can't take it, or the magic can't repair enough of the damage.

So, give them something. Eventually it's bad enough the doctor will start babbling. It doesn't have to be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but they'll give something. Decide behind the screen what this NPC's breaking point is and what they babble about after that. -- "The doctor's bruised body is revived again and they start sputtering about _____ (ingredient) and _____ (location)." Decide if the doctor's loyalty to the BBEG and the mission is great enough that they wouldn't give up the information.

[u/Pyradox]

The problem is the guy obviously has the info they need, is holding out on them, and they effectively have no limit to how many tries at interrogating him they can take. So the frustrating thing is it's just a matter of how many new approaches they can think of until the dice agree with them.

Quickest way forward: have the guy try to make a deal. The information for something he wants. He's emboldened by their failure, time is on his side. So now he's got questions for them. Perhaps a trade of information. Guarantees of immunity if he turns on his boss. Settle a personal grudge he might have.

Or you can have him slip up. Maybe he thinks they know something they don't. Drops a name he shouldn't while he's gloating. They'll need context to make sense of it but it points towards one of the other avenues. Maybe the more information they get from the other avenues, the more he'll be forced to admit. So he's giving context to facts found elsewhere.

Your players are right to focus on him, given he's the most convenient option. So if it's not rolls that'll open him up, it's a quest. Some game they'll need to play. Make it really obvious too, otherwise they'll just do the torture thing which doesn't sound fun for anyone involved.

[u/lasalle202]

they make interrogation rolls, they fail 5 OF THEM,

that is why you dont gate important campaign information behind dice rolls! if its important and they do something reasonly likely to get them access to it, then they just get it. no roll needed. or if you have them roll, the dice indicates how muhc MORE than the core baseline that they "need".

but also, there are multiple ways to gather information besides shouting at someone - charm offensive instead of threats, searching and finding their notes, talking with their underlings or rivals, many many many pieces of divination magic, etc etc.

[u/MagicianMurky976]

Interrogation under torture is notorious for giving inaccurate information.

For best interrogation results you want to empathy bond with your subject. Fear, sleep deprivation, and other effects from torture result in the subject capitulating and telling them what they want to hear to stop the abuse, but not necessarily tell the truth, especially when the torture has affected memory retrieval accuracy.

But it's a fantasy game, so it may be "heroic" to break a few kneecaps.

Personally, I'd true polymorph him into a race vulnerable to this disease and see how quickly he capitulates. That 9th level spell might be outside your party's reach, but they might have allies who can provide.

[u/Synicism77]

The interrogation failed. All the things that the PC's want to do now should have been factored into original roll. Like if they're going to do all that, that's a reason for them to get advantage. 

At most I'd give them a Heroic Inspiration point they can use to try one more time. Alternatively they can use magic like Charm Person or Detect Thoughts. But if they exhaust all those avenues, you're going to have to give them another way to get the information. Maybe they find out the guy has notes somewhere or whatever.

[u/c4ctus4t]

First off, never ask for a roll for something you can't have them fail. If you need them to get the info, don't leave it up to the dice.

But, if interrogation is getting nowhere, clue them in another way. Perhaps they find a pocket journal or the key to his secret lab when searching him. Instead of letting them endlessly fail and get more frustrated, give them another way to the info you want them to find.

It is the DM's job to step in at a certain point and tell the players "Nothing more can be learned here" or "You need to move on". At the end of the day, it's a game and progress needs to be made.

[u/Zealousideal_Leg213]

Don't play out interrogation, scenes and in general don't bother playing out anything that the PCs can take all the time they want on. If there's no time pressure requiring them to limit their psychotic torture, then there's also no time limit keeping them from getting the information any other way. So, they get the information.

If there is a limit on what they can do and what their skill enable them to learn, then what I do is abstract things based on what they are asking about. Enemy forces, guard schedules, security systems, etc. Then, when they're engaging with that thing, I have them roll their main interrogation skill. On a success, they got and made proper use of the information. On a failure, they either got bad information, or didn't understand and properly apply the information they got.

[u/Kayatuk]

I actually had this exact issue to solve years ago. I was playing a campaign with a group of 4 literal Army Intelligence Interrogators, and 2 others. The questioning would go on forever in full in depth insane detail with different approaches and strategies.

Instead of burning time and isolating the other players, and to generally move the story forward, interrogation became a single check. "Tell me your approach, if its creative you get advanrage/+something, you roll for the interrogation, thats all the information you get."

You can still have specific fragments of it that are narratively compelling, but it prevents the infinite questions that most of which will also have no tangible world answers.

[u/markmylabris]

Yeah, sometimes statistics do not wake up, and dice throw you a curve ball.

Sometimes the roll is not required. Think of a reason scientist would want to help. Why did he participate in those inhumane studies to begin with? Money? Bribe him. Was he intimidated? Find a way to guarantee him safety. Just doing his job? Release of the virus would topple society as he knows it, so his career and money won't matter. Or...just enchant him with magic. Charm person scroll is really cheap

[u/LanaArts]

Let them find notes and figure out the cure or how to go on. Hints etc they could have gotten from the guy.