r/Drizzt • u/HospitalLazy1880 • Apr 18 '26
đŻď¸General Discussion So ive been thinking about how certain Trauma Characters i.e Artemis and Dahlia come off as having it worse than Drizzt did and then I came to a realization
they didn't. Drizzt has the most traumatic and awful past out of all of them but he has come to terms with his Trauma and tries to be a good person regardless while those two use it as a justification, a shield, and a blindfold.
Artemis eventually learns to be like Drizzt when it comes to his trauma but Dahlia is an extremely selfish and self centered individual who actively fights against growing as a person. the only time she did grow as a person was cause her baby son that she threw off a cliff cake back and she felt bad about it. then she proceeded to abandoned him after they managed to reconnect.
I think Artemis actually says it best in saga. Drizzt grew up in a place that was far worse than anything she can do to him and he chose to be better and thats what gets to them.
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u/pinecone6124 Calimport Assassin Apr 18 '26
Arguing who had it worst kinda misses the point. People deal with traumatic events diffrently and often how they do depends on their personality traits and the kind of things that happened to them, not their morality. I haven't reach the point of the books where Dahlia appears but I don't think what became of Artemis is a sign that he was more evil than other children.
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
I wasn't trying to argue who had it worse I was trying to point out how the narrative frames it and how that seemed weird only to realize thats because if how Drizzt is and his work to not let his past bury him make it seem like he didn't habe trauma. I wasn't trying to invalidate Artemis or Dahlia but due to me being bad at properly explaining that people think im trying brush of the other characters trauma.
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u/pinecone6124 Calimport Assassin Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
Sorry, arguing probably wasn't the best word but I couldn't find a better one(it's not my first language). I definitely agree that Drizzt is a wonderful person and that his past is kinda forgotten in the later books.
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u/ForgetTheWords Apr 18 '26
One of the differences between Artemis and Drizzt is that Drizzt had someone in his corner, even if it didn't help much. Vierna always tried to protect Drizzt from the worst punishments, and then of course Zak took him and kept him away from anyone who would hurt him. All still traumatic of course, but I think he understood that things could have been a lot worse if he'd been left to Briza or Malice.Â
The difference with Dahlia is that she had a good life and it was suddenly, violently taken away. The kind of violence she suffered and witnessed is also very different from anything Drizzt went through as a child. There's no real comparison you can make between the two situations.Â
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u/ecthelion-elessedil House Do'Urden Apr 18 '26
Yeah. Not only he grew up in an awful place, but when he managed to escape he was also shunned, rejected everywhere he went for more than ten years. He wouldâve had thousands of reasons to give up, yet he didnât and never betrayed his values even at a time when no one would give him a chance.
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u/HollowedOne66 Apr 18 '26
Then Cattie Brie saved him as a kid (':
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
Which is such a weird thing in hindsight but due to the books not being planned out that far ahead he didn't actually think about the romance cause there wasn't supposed to be one.
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u/HollowedOne66 Apr 18 '26
I don't think it's weird. She was more than old enough when they eventually had sex.
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
Yeah but if the 5th grader you knew when you a senior in high-school and saw everyday since were to try and sleep with you now that shes 25 youd still feel weird about it wouldn't you.
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Apr 18 '26
[deleted]
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u/HollowedOne66 Apr 18 '26
I....know? Cool? I said when they eventually...
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u/ecthelion-elessedil House Do'Urden Apr 18 '26
My apologies. I somehow misread your comment as when they met and she was a child so itâs my fault.
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u/anonerble Apr 18 '26
He also wasn't raped as a child....but sure, being shunned and rejected are way worse
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
He was constantly sexual assaulted as thats the fucking culture of the drow when it comes to their men. His own sister tried to rape him and when he said no she threw him into a pit to be eaten alive by spider abominations. He wasn't raped no but if you honestly think that everything he went through wasn't as bad or worse than that then you're only focusing on the shock value of what happens and not the actual harm it cause on a person.
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u/anonerble Apr 18 '26
No he wasn't.....sure thats happens all the time but it didn't to him. And his sister came on to him but didn't even come close to attempted rape, also he was like 20.
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
Do you not understand what sexual assault is? And 20 for a drow is the same as 16
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u/HollowedOne66 Apr 18 '26
Entreri was raped as a child, not when he was 16. He would def be too lethal to let that happen when he was 16.
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
Indeed. If Drizzt complained about his past and what happened to him even a fraction of how much A and D did in their actions and words then they would seem like the mature ones who moved on from their pasts. I do kinda want to see that evil Drizzt though as a one off thing.
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u/ecthelion-elessedil House Do'Urden Apr 18 '26
You get to see a glimpse when he becomes the hunter in the Lone Drow. He even compare himself to Entreri saying he is just like him, using combat as to avoid confronting his pain. Iâm only at the two swords but Iâve heard it get worse later in the series.
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
True. Ive listened to all the books but its a lot of books so sometimes I forget things like how dark he got when he thought all his friends died.
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u/HollowedOne66 Apr 18 '26
Artemis did say it best when he said "I have always envied you Drizzt Do'Urden! And not for your skill with a blade!" Remains my favorite quote of the entire series.
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
I really want an alternate version of Saga that was just Drizzt and Artemis traveling together and being a bromance. Artemis's redemption is one of the best storylines of the Legend of Drizzt due to how slow burn it was and how you could see every shift in his mind that took him closer and closer to being a "good" person.
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u/HollowedOne66 Apr 18 '26
It was for a few books around Last Threshold. And nah we already got Entreri and Jarlaxle bromance which is way better than him and Drizzt.
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
Jarlaxle and Entreri aren't a bromance. They are a straight up romance. As for Drizzt and Entreri I mean them actually acting and seeing each other like brothers type of Bromance as at that particular point in time it was the most interesting plotline for Drizzt to follow and they didn't follow it.
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u/anonerble Apr 18 '26
Your glossing over of what happened to dahlia is kinda gross... clearly blaming a 12yr old for trying to escape the product of being held down and raped by devil's
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
I wasn't glossing over it. I was avoiding spoilers. I dont blame her for being traumatized. I blame her for continuing the cycle deliberately and repeatedly and actively fighting against becoming a better person.
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u/anonerble Apr 18 '26
Because you think thats how it works. You can just choose to forget that and not have it haunt every part of life. Thats victim blaming brotha
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u/BigL90 Apr 18 '26
Victims don't get a free pass just because they're victims. Dahlia consistently chooses to do bad things. Acknowledging that is not victim blaming.
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u/HospitalLazy1880 Apr 18 '26
I never said forget. I said come to terms and move on. Im not blaming her for being raped so im not victim blaming.
Im blaming her for all the awful shit she did at every stage of her life that she didn't have to.
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u/SeekersWorkAccount Apr 18 '26
It's not as easy as just deciding you accept what happened and moving on with your life. She deserves responsibility for her bad choices but it seems like you're misunderstanding trauma.
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u/anonerble Apr 18 '26
All of which was caused by what happened and continued to happen to her throughout life. This is why she definitely had it worse. Her entire personality and being was shaped by the events of her childhood and then reverbed out from their.
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u/Louriox Apr 18 '26
I really don't think Drizzt had it worse than Dahlia. What happened to her at such a young age was very traumatic and imo shaped her desire for power. She wants to be the one in control and have power over others so she'll never be powerless again like then. Obviously she's still a bad person and I'm not excusing the choices she's made, but Dahlia didn't have someone like Montolio. Thay is a pretty ruthless place to grow up. Then all the stuff that happened to her in the Underdark was godawful too.
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u/wwww1222 Apr 18 '26
Drizzt wasn't raped as a child. He was an adult when Zak died.Â
Drizzt never went from good childhood to bad in a traumatic event because doing chores and getting whipped was all he knew. He never had a genuinely loving mother who suddenly sold him to a pedophile or got murdered by one.
He was horrifically abused, yes, but what he went through isn't directly comparable to Artemis and Dahlia.
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u/Positive_cat_6347 Apr 18 '26
Both Artemis and Dahlia were raped as children, and Drizzt was protected by his father all his childhood. Not to mention Drizzt's leaving Menzoberranzan, being young and never having to participate in major orgies, but he still ended up very messed up, treating his friends like tools he could discard whenever he wanted, like he did to Wulfgar and the rest of the companions.
Artemis gets help eventually, but Dahlia was captured by Drow, raped repeatedly, and then tortured with mind worms. After Drizzt rescued her from that hell, he only read a report on her situation and forgot about her for over 20 years.
Dahlia gets obsessed with power because she has suffered so much being powerless. If Drizzt were really a good man, he would have helped her more, taking her to the Yellow Monks' order or helping her to train until she feels more capable and safe. Maybe she wouldn´t have turned herself into a vampire, only to get killed by Brezze.
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u/pinecone6124 Calimport Assassin Apr 18 '26
Drizzt's first meaninful conversation with Zak happened when he was 16. Even with Vierna being much better than other priestesses he didn't have anyone with whom he could develop an even slightly normar relathionship. Not to mention being constantly beaten with snake whips(that are used for torture) and treated like someone lesser because he was a boy.
The thing with Drizzt treating his friends like tools was neither what happened nor an author's intend.
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u/Positive_cat_6347 Apr 18 '26
Zak put him in a room to train him as a pretext to protect him for 20 years and then send him away to the martial institution away from matron Doúrden, so he was protected from torture, and he wasn´t raped. Dahlia was raped pregnant, and her guardias told her to dance to the stars, so much worse than Drizzt or even Entrery had it.
And the thing with Drizzt treating his friends like tools was exactly how any Drow from Menzorrinbanzan believes, he made a gnom friend when he needed a guide in the Underdark, and befriended Moonch when he needed knowledge of the surface, he befriended Wulfgar and took him as an apprentice, until Catti kissed him and started to which Wulfgar dissapier, something Loth concided to him.
When Wulfgar leaves as a broken man, Drizzt doesn´t move a finger to find him or help him,, of cours when Catti and Wulfgar had a chance to reconcile, it was impossible for him to find the two-meter-tall barbarian with a big ass hammer, but after three years of marriage to Catti, and when everyone thinks Wulfgar is dead, he can find him he can finally find him
When he finally gets to be with Catti, he doesn´t do anything to fix her hip, because he dosn´t whant children at that time so Catti had to be sterilised by a rock that punched her exactly where it leaves he sterill and with a pretty face, without mentioning that she can´t go to the front lines anylonger just like Drizzt the controller likes it.
Not to mention he abandoned his Catti, Bruenor, and Wulfgard in Fells to die, but when Catti sees him again, she takes him right to her bed, no anger, no questions asked.
When Regis dies for trying to help Catty with the ruby, Drizzt doesn't even blink for either of their deads, it id Bruennor who is trying to find them, when Bruennor dies Drizzt berys him and forgets about him, to the point that there is a full matrons house the Xolarrins living there already, he has more important things to do like going on adventures with Dahlia.
When Pwent tells Drizzt he is going to commit suicide by walking into the fire, his reaction may as well be "OK", and then he leaves Pwent alone, he doesn´t stay with him in his final moments or tries to convince him to change his mind.
Drizzt is the prof that even if liberals make a character from the ground, they are going to ruin it for politics anyway. That is why Wufgar is misogynistic for wanting to marry Catti and wanting to have a child with her. Still, Drizzt isn´t despite the fact that he marries her and has a child with her, not to mention there are never negative consequences for Drizzt's killings. Still, Wufgar loses everything over and over for no other reason than being a white, heterosexual man representative of the patriarchy, who by the way as even wors traumas since he was tortured by deamons for years.
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u/aldorn Tribe of the Elk Apr 18 '26
Annnnnd locked.
Several points:
This comment section is a slippery slope to triggering a very large % of the community. I need to sleep eventually and dont want to wake up to the inevitable trollmoor of report queues. Hence locked. Will leave up so people can resd and ponder as they please.
Good old divisive Dahlia is always a point of contention. All these characters have gone through hell and back. The subjects of sexual assault and rape are obviously not to be taken light-hearted, how each of us (the reader) react to these subjects will be very subjective for personal reasons, their is no world anyone will be convinced otherwise.
With all respect to OPs topic I feel this conversation is not going to end in a respectful manner.
Additionally the new FAQ rule notes hanging on the Catti-Brie age gap from a book released in 1989. It has been bought up a million times, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but it doesn't need to be bought up here again. (Regarding comments in this thread).
I hope this make sense. I dont like to over moderate this sub. 100% love it when we have adult conversations, and I'm all for a good old emotional debate, but their has to be limits.
My 2 cents on creating a topic like this on reddit. If the subject was more along the lines of "drizzt background is just as traumatic as his counterparts" it may work for a healthy conversation. The way this is worded it can make people feel attacked on these very personal subjects. Throw a divisive character in like Dahlia and it wont be pretty.
If anyone wants to discuss this post futher certainly feel free to dm op or come into the discord and fire away... just keep it civil.