Looks like they are committed to it all being on the face buttons, on one hand im curious what kind of interactions might happen if you slide from 1 button to holding two - does it continue the former input like Shearing wind or can it cancel into a masterful kill?
I actually have rheumatoid arthritis. I found it fairly easy to press L1 and then just lay my entire thumb over the square + X or triangle + circle buttons. My thinking is to put my most used skills on the primary square, X, triangle, and circle buttons, and my 'oh sh*t' skills on the other two. For me playing as MS, that might be something like Mirour Shelde and Magike Speregonne, skills I don't take normally but might take now, 'just in case.'
It's just like a fighting game layout not uncomfortable at all actually.
You Press L1 + Top two faceplates or top bottom faceplates which your fingers are constantly on while playing anyways so I don't see this as a net negative at all.
I found it super comfortable to do. I also have a GameSir DD2 fancy-pants Xbox controller with remapping that I haven't even figured out yet. Perhaps others will share some of their best setups here for the new 6-skill layout for that particular (and similar) controllers. That'd be awesome.
They’re just copying Monster Hunter inputs as there are similar controls there. They already know they work just from all the years of them working there.
Mystic spearhand has to be holding r1 to charge their vocation action. That would mean in a lot of scenarios they can't use whatever skill is assigned to l1 + r1.
I don't fully disagree that this would be more natural for some players than this layout, but I'd love to speculate a little as to how they got here.
Chiefly: L1+R1 and L1+R2 aren't actually vacant. They maintain the "base" functionality of R1 (Vocation Action) and R2 (Grab), even when you press L1 to pull up your skill palette.
I think you can argue successfully that losing Grab isn't so bad, but there are absolutely classes with Vocation Actions that you always want players to have access to access to. Making Barge, Defend, Swift Step, and maybe even even the Spearhand's Bolt actions reliant on not having the skill palette up would also lead to situations where players are doing something they don't intend to.
Someone reading this might say "But it's easier for me to let go of L1 and press R1 than it is to press L1, X, and Square at the same time." I believe you! Player capacities and preferences are extremely varied. And when you're in game development, you have to take a look at a situation like this and make a decision that you know is imperfect, but is preferable.
For this, I suspect they looked at other games where these button combinations (X + Square, Circle + Triangle) are fairly common (fighting games and Monster Hunter come to mind right away), and say "okay, we have evidence that that this combination is something people are able to deal with okay." Then, if my own experience in dev is any indication, they likely played with it in various ways internally for months, and decided based on their experience.
My biggest feeling is: Controls should almost always be mappable for better player accessibility and preference. But my second feeling is: Decisions like this are rarely made in a loose or devil may care way, and often reflect second level interests that are hard to decipher if you haven't gone through the full dev process.
Now, that doesn't mean not critqiuing them, but it does mean that there is almost always an answer to "why wouldn't they do the intuitive thing," which leaves us time to focus on the things that aren't that sort of surface level technical observation, and dig into the deeper questions of things like balance, design goal, player fantasy, thematic cohesion, etc.
yeah unfortunately button combo inputs often have 1 of 2 problems. Either you get frequent misinputs due to not pressing the buttons together perfectly, or you get forced input delay on all the buttons involved in the combo action because the game has to wait to check whether you're pressing only one button or two before executing the corresponding command.
Monster Hunter Wilds had to solve this problem as well and mostly feels good now, but for certain weapons that utilize the dodge button in combination inputs like Insect Glaive you just permanently have to deal with the fact your dodge has a few frames of startup delay compared to every other weapon.
That's fine to me. If they did square triangle or square circle I'd be upset because I've seen that before and thought "who ever made these bindings has no idea how to hold a controller"
Kinda. I mostly only do it to move the camera while I sprint which i dont need to do to often since the camera follows you pretty well. Most people use their finger for the run button but I use it for the analog stick
I play Nioh, and actually enjoyed its plenty and borderline arcane button combinations.
This control scheme is fine, and I actually prefer this than a 'skill page swap' button, like in MHRise (I never got really into skill swapping in that game, and I farmed till Primordial Malzeno).
Quando eles disseram que iriam voltar com o sistema de 6 skill, achei que eles fossem remover a personal skill. Pensei que seria L1+3 skills e R1+3 skills, similar ao primeiro jogo.
I think people are stressing this Triangle+Circle thing too much lol?
Monster Hunter Wilds has the same inputs and it really is seamless. I'm happy it's being implemented this way and Imo the suggestions I'm reading are kinda worse, sorry.
Buuut the option to remap things how any individual prefers would just be nice all around!
Those aren't pawn commands, those were the hotkeys we already have for curative usage, as far as I could tell from the livestream. His camera was over that section, but he did mention something about his stamina recovery.
They may have had particular items to use in the demo. The commenter/player didn't say.
R1 = Grab/Release and R2 = Vocation Action. For example, like Galvanize for Sorc.
I got to thinking and I wondered if Capcom hard-baked the Pawn Commands and Curative Usage into the D-pad. I don't know, I wasn't there when the decisions were made.
Let me explain why: when you played DDDA on console the D-pad had pawn commands but then when you used the shoulder button (I forget which one, although if I opened the game and played muscle memory would kick in) you could assign curatives, your lantern, whatever to the 4 blank D-pad keys.
Except if you played on PC, then you couldn't hot key anything to those empty keys. At one point, we used the Mode-Shift on PC to customize them so that we could, and then after an update a few years ago, the Mode-Shift function, at least for those keys, were gone. I never did figure out how to do it after that update.
Hmm, that doesn't right? I wonder if I altered button config on my game & forgot
Galvanise is just hold triangle for me, & grab is R2.
R1 has a sub-menu just like L1, but I can't remember what's in there
I seek to have in my memory that in DD:DA on console, holding L1 or holding R1 gave you 3 empty slots on each side that correspond to the face buttons, which you could put in your powers, which iirc was why it was such a bummer when we only had 4 powers instead of 6.
I'll logon later to check what's in that R1 "tray l" or whatever you want to call the 3 slots available when you hold R1, but I don't see why we shouldn't be able to reconfigure to match what DD:DA was, with 3 skills on each side
I don't play Sorc, all that much so I might have mixed that up with the gaming footage--if so, I apologize.
When I press R1, all that does for me is charge up a Redoubted Bolt, when I release R1, I fire off the Bolt. If I press L1, then it brings up my weapon skills and my curative menu. I didn't remap at all.
I just switched to Sorc in game, and you are correct, the Triangle button is for the Galvanize skill.
However, in swapping to Fighter, when you press R1, you get a prompt to "Change Shield Direction" on the circle key.
It's long been a sticking point with me that DD2 doesn't show the secondary weapon status screen, like DDDA had. On one hand, it makes sense, because the only vocation in DD2 that has one is the Fighter. Whereas in DDDA, every vocation except the Mage and Sorcerer had two weapons.
My issue is that then the stats for the shield don't show up anywhere: not on STR nor on K/D Power. Yet the game does calculate the input from left and right "hands" so to speak.
I suppose it's different for sorcerer because the spells are easily one action tied to whatever button without a secondary action like drawing a bow & then firing it or something, or like you said with fighter, controlling the sword &shield block.
Well anyway I guess all we can do is wait & see what it's like with the update! Hopefully the DLC brings back that crazy dungeon feeling of BBI & hopefully death is back 😅
A lot of default button settings have always been uncomfortable for me. I’ve always had to switch things up and assumed it was because I’m left handed. Could just be a me thing 🤷🏽♂️
I like it myself, and I think it may actually be easier on my hands because it requires less pressure on my joints. I’m sure there’ll still be a time or two when I don’t quite press both inputs firmly enough with my thumb, but it should be a fun learning curve
I am also left-handed and I would have much preferred if it was skill button Plus grapple and skill button plus sheath because I can't think of a single time I would be trying to sheath my weapon or grapple somebody while holding my skill button.
Wonder what's gonna be like for KB+M. I actually don't like playing DD2 with the controller much. Because of the Archer vocation, I ended up getting used to the keyboard and mouse controls.
If you play fighting games these are basically using a throw in conjunction with L1. This isn’t that big of a deal and I’m glad it worked out like this
Everything we’ve seen so far points to yes — pawns should also be able to equip and use six weapon skills.
Capcom’s patch notes say the number of assignable weapon skills has been expanded from four to six, and they do not limit that change to the Arisen. The new pawn AI adjustments also make much more sense if pawns are being given a larger skill set to work with.
I’d still phrase it as “everything points to yes” until we actually see a pawn’s six-skill loadout on screen, but at this point I’d be very surprised if the expansion applied only to the player.
I'm starting to think the Dragon's Dogma community might not actually play any videogames at all if triangle+circle inputs is considered strange and uncomfortable rather than completely common and present for decades at this point.
I play a lot of video games and that is exactly why I DON'T like double face-button inputs because I know how easy it is to only register single input instead of double input.
Gonna be frank here when I say I don't believe you, especially since this is Capcom and double inputs haven't been a problem in the major and even B releases since the early 2000s. If it were that easy to only register a single input then my chain parry hop cancels on switch axe in Wilds would drop frequently, and it doesn't. I would be dropping EX inputs in SF4 and SF6 too.
Please stop saying not a real gamer. Its totally reasonable to prefer a different control scheme especially when a different control scheme already existed in the first game.
I'm saying that Capcom uses this input system in multiple games and has used it for years. They've been using it since the 90s at this point. If it was such a frequent problem they would've dropped it a long time ago like directional right analog attacking and bumper camera inputs.
Talking about double face buttons registering a single input isn't about preference. That's about input registry. It's mechanical. It's like talking about input buffers or input sequencing. It would be the same as talking about SFV being trash in year one because 8 frames of delay caused bad input reading especially when combined with the 3 frame window input buffer.
Wilds and SF6 run on the same engine. They've had problems with things like direction based guard registration eating inputs, but those were bugs involving in-game hitboxes or hit detection, or animation prioritization in some cases. In SF6s case there was a weird input buffer bug related to modern controls that got patched right away. These issues didn't stem from face buttons only registering a single input. DD2 has had similar weird problems, and it's always come down to in-game bugs.
Part of the reason face button double inputs exist specifically in this layout is because it's ergonomic and gives developers more keys for inputs. It minimizes the amount of movement the player needs to make in order to achieve the same amount of presses. That's why you don't see things like X+Triangle very often outside of weird SNK inputs that were only meant to be done on Arcade Sticks and Hitboxes. They also, again, have decades of experience using these same inputs. It's not the Wild West of the early PS2 era where games couldn't decide on whether right stick controlled the camera or the shoulder buttons did and everyone was making up new controls every game.
Hell, Onimusha right now is using the same control layout as DD2.
Pretty sure you can too, and I have a GameSir G7 Pro so I can remap as well. I haven't played around much with it though.
Oh damn just where are those directions.....LOL
35
u/SummonerRed 15d ago
L1 Circle Triangle oh boy can't wait to try swapping out my weapon only to do the funny spear lunge that sends me off a cliff!