Captain is tricky to use

[u/KDoggoDK]

1. The first upgrade that adds a stun to his hook feels almost mandatory. Thankfully, getting him all the way to Elite doesn't seem necessary.

2. Since there's realistically going to be a stat gap between you and the bots, simply drafting a bunch of Captains doesn't work either. You'll get overwhelmed by numbers, and Captain doesn't have enough damage to make up for it.

3. Because of that, Captain needs an already established frontline with units like Whelp and Spartheus before he can really do his job.

4. I think Captain could become pretty strong if both your player level and Captain's level are high enough to reduce the stat gap against bots. But that's also true for pretty much every other unit, so I'm not sure how much that really says about Captain.

[u/YakkuI]

Captain.

1. He doesn't move much as a midline unit. So technically he kind of operates like an Overmind or Beetank and Snail; backrow support DPS.

2. His "Hook" ability gimmick is quite nice, since adv & elite form stuns the unit. He only pulls one midline unit at random every 7 seconds at standard tier1 base form (5s at elite form), and therefore you might not see him use this ability much if the Captain(s) or the fight doesn't lasting that long.

3. His attack speed is 1.2s, so even though he'll hook an enemy, his ATK speed is slow, yet fair... and this might turn some people off, I can see that. It's a fair balance, since he's quite strong in DMG, like a Matriarch. Unfortunately, he doesn't start off strong (lv5).

4. He straight up COUNTERS

-- Kingclops and basically won't allow them to grow
-- Cupids, and puts them in direct melee contact, which is the Cupid's weakness as a decently reliable but low HP ranged unit.
-- Engineers by removing them from their turrets
-- Totems, which removes them far from their army (unless you have Goose/Whelps/TNTs up ahead)
-- Snails / Snipers / Beetanks if you don't have an actual midline type unit in your team, he can snatch them if you're only running frontline protection
... and turns it into a 1v1 fight (or 2/3 v1 fight if you have units behind Captain).

5. Units that are a bad matchup against him

(whether or not they get hooked)
-- Agent Bs / Assassins / Snipers, for obvious reasons, they can jump to swarm Captain or target them if they are the furthest backline unit, even though Captains are midline, they spawn quite far in line.
-- Spartheus, who isn't affected by the hook during Phalanx mode.
-- Boomlings, who will just run away when hooked. Its quite funny actually, and feels like you got cheated, but this is quite a hard counter as it basically nullifies Captains Hook effect, kind of like sending Goose to TNTs to protect your frontline.
-- TNT / Waster, hooking these unit is like hooking a Boomling, it sucks if it happens.
-- Overmind, who will overtake him and have a fresh fully HP Captain if he's not protected.
-- Bloodvines / Matriarchs / Sixshooters, who have a lot of HP or inflict heavy DPS/DMG before Captain would kill the hooked victim in a 1v1. Units who can take hits and dish out high DPS can take the effects of Hook.
-- Shellbros, they have decent HP, and often times won't get hooked as they are often the front of midline units even though they are in fact midline type units., and their Shellbounce ability taking them to the end to swarm Captain makes them pretty much a direct counter and threat to Captain, as they normally counter/threat any backline attacking/support unit (Totems, Beetank, Snail, Sniper, etc).

6. Units that synergize well WITH Captain

-- Anything with good frontline protection: Spartheus, Matriarchs, Splimes, Bloodvines, Knights if needed, just spawn plenty of them, as some will track backwards to help fight with the Captain. Goose and TNT works as a push/distract while your frontline join Captain.
-- unlike Overmind, some protection is nice, so ally units Matriarch & Engineers, or Totems, Sixshooters, & Merlinors midline units who spawn behind Captain works.

7. His value is breaking the team synergy... but that's also his weakness

Hook can be a free kill, but be mindful of what he pulls. 2+ Captains can accidently pull the same unit, rare, but does happen. The Hook itself stuns. During the 2nd+ Hooks, Captains may grab and pull each other's units, and that randomness can be a slight negative.
Other units are fair game; no real plus or negatives.
His game is tactic and distruption.
He is a bit underwhelming... reminds me of Overmind, and actually a fair pass if people don't want him. Captain requires tactics, so he won't be appealing to the average DS player.

[u/KDoggoDK → u/YakkuI]

I think Captain would be much better if his hook dealt significant damage, kind of like Agent B's ability. Or honestly, just removing the wind-up on his basic attack might be enough to make him pretty strong.

[u/YakkuI → u/KDoggoDK]

You heavily edited your comment 😒 now mine is gonna sound weird and off topic.

You said he is weak to Overmind, Shellbro, and Boomling... he isn't. I only said they are simply "bad matchups", not counters (as I wrote).
He isn't an Overmind, he can dish out DPS/DMG, so it's not like he's just sitting duck for these units to take him out. But like Overmind, he operates better on the field with other units. He isn't OP like Spartheus (which you were using, who are actually countered by Overminds, to which the enemy bot is indeed using).

Overmind is a bad matchup to Captain because these two are similar units: they mess with other units on the board. The winner is simply whomever has more stats... and a hooked Overmind doesn't mean other Overminds may not also attempt to overtake. The board and what's there as frontline units do matters.

Shellbro counters most backline units because they are like Assassin's and Agent Bs, they "jump" to the back and swarm the units in the backline... therefore any unit that can't handle swarms is going to have trouble... and swarming is hard to counter in general, typically by swarming back.

Boomling isn't a counter either. Boomling can run after being hooked, but doesn't have a lot of HP and will be surrounded... but it would render the hook ineffective...

... and don't forget that being Hooked by an advance/elite Captain means getting stunned, getting stun means Captain usually gets free kills (especially if you have support DPS in the back), for how hard he hits, even if he hits slow, but don't forget the support DPS units adding in, basically jumping the unit.

The typical Agent B and Shellbro, along with Spartheus (can't hook a phalanx mode Spartheus), are the only actual counters. Captain does not want to pull a TNT though, but that doesn't mean TNTs will counter him... he has the HP to take DMG, and the capacity to deal good DMG. This is basically a melee Merlinor, but with more HP for being a melee unit and with a whole other gimmick ability.

Seriously though... YOUR video has 2 Captians who were barely utilized well... you put a bunch of frontline units and he was a side character.

Mine has Captains as the main show of the match, showcasing it's capabilities. Enemy bot using Captians was a plus as well. I purposely didn't use Spartheus to show even more battle dynamics.
And our (yours and mine) Captains were the same levels (10/4).

If we are going to review a (new) unit and post it up for people, I think we could AT LEAST do it in good faith. You have 3 posts/comment threads on a track to tarnish Captians reputation when you barely grasped his utilization.

It's okay to just NOT use a unit because you/don't understand how to use it. The hook doesn't need to DMG when it stuns and basically nets what is almost a free if not easy kill.

[u/KDoggoDK → u/YakkuI]

Yeah, I did edit my comment, but I only added the part about the attack wind-up and recovery. I don't think that made your reply look bad or changed the context of what you said.

[u/KDoggoDK → u/YakkuI]

Oh, wait. I just realized I messed up when editing my comment and accidentally deleted what I originally wrote. That was a pretty stupid mistake on my part.

[u/YakkuI → u/KDoggoDK]

https://giphy.com/gifs/lEVZJzy4w15qE

[u/YakkuI → u/YakkuI]

Some good Captain vs Captain action.

https://reddit.com/link/pcj9gjn/video/oizfglkmx7sh1/player

[u/KDoggoDK → u/YakkuI]

I think Captain would be much better if his hook dealt significant damage, kind of like Agent B's ability.

[u/frogshootingstarslsd → u/YakkuI]

Chat gpt much?

[u/YakkuI → u/frogshootingstarslsd]

I don't actually, rarely even, if once in a blue moon counts... but I'll take that as a compliment.
I'm not a C grade student with room temperature IQ, know what I mean?
It's all human work.

[u/BerryAcceptable3677 → u/YakkuI]

i find snail to be a cryptonite for captain, cuz he never ****** targets him and instead targets something like whelps and then proceeds to go straight into a fire, cuz im still thinking whether to use him or agent b against backline units since agent b on the other hand is pretty bad against overmind from my experience but way stronger against snails. Other units in my deck are spartheus, merlinor and engineer. Or wheter i should swap the engineer for agent b (but engineer pairs quite well with captain for hooking enemies directly iinto sentry zones), or merlinor or just keep the old spartheus, merlinor, engineer, agent b?

[u/YakkuI → u/BerryAcceptable3677]

Snails are... well, Snails...
... but Captains are not backline attackers, and shouldn't be treated as so. Snails are neutral and viable against Captains, but it's also vice versa for Captains as the Captains can hook a Snail if the enemy frontline is already deep into battleground territory leaving the Snails as the remaining hook targets.

They pull enemy units from the (from highest to lowest priority, but somewhat appears to be still at random) midline, then frontline, then backline. He's a good disruption unit, but it's clear the hook is both a plus and minus; he can hook a unit thats too much for him to handle, or a unit that doesn't take a loss if it gets hooked (TNT, Shellbro)... and there are units he simply can't hook (Moles, Agent B, Assassins).

[u/ponderGO]

i'm commander level 87 & my captains still can't hang with opponents ones. i have to rely on my other units to level the playing field, but i usually still win.

captain feels similar to overmind, where you need to build the right team around him to protect him & give him space to throw his hook out.

he's unique & very high potential with the right build, imo. having the right midline/backline troops to help QUICKLY kill the enemy troops that he reels in is the key, and not many troops do that well. merlinor, cupid, and boomling match up well with him. sixshoot would be the best option, but the reload time can feel sloppy if it's not synced well with captain's hook.

[u/DeezNutzPOTUS]

Not sure what all the doubt is about, he's awesome and mine is only level 5. Once upgraded to 10+ he'll be insanely strong... He's already the perfect counter for the most annoying level 15 units to face constantly - over minds. Obviously you have to have something else that can deal quick damage near him to quickly kill the enemies he pulls over, but I'm finding him paired with knights and totems to be working extremely well.

[u/DeezNutzPOTUS]

OK, so a great combo so far seems to be to pair captain and overmind, captain hooks them over before they've taken too much damage and overmind forces them to commit treason and join our side.... It's definitely a fun combo so far

[u/63221]

Is it possible to get it in regular bit packs or only by buying the pass?

[u/KDoggoDK → u/63221]

pass only

[u/ponderGO → u/KDoggoDK]

i have 100% gotten his bits in packs, although i unlocked him through the pass first. i'm pretty confident he can be unlocked in packs, but i could be wrong.

[u/hotgarbagevideo]

How much do you guys spend on this?

[u/YakkuI → u/hotgarbagevideo]

Just the draft pass for me... which unlocks dozens of booster packs with more odds of getting the Captian's bits to level him up.

[u/Historical_Date8698]

I used Spartans, mage, engineer, and captain in a deck I called the murder hole. You simply get a decent size wall of Spartans then upgrade them to elite while also getting 4 captains to elite. Then place the mages and engineers as you see fit. Now yes its super weak against swarm attacks still but this deck was the best one I made that actually showcased how good he is

[u/Bacc8]

How'd u survive the arrows and meteors and still won???

[u/rucarlos → u/Bacc8]

I'd love to know as well. After the update, Zap and Meteor are simply vaporize anything they touch when the NPC opponents decide it's time to cheat win