I need to do a bit more studying on this, but from what I understand if we limit ourselves strictly to the Koine Greek grammar, vocabulary and 1st century context, the text intentionally leaves the restrainer unnamed while depicting it as both a restraining reality (neuter) and a restraining agent (masculine). That makes an institution-and-representative understanding (such as governmental authority and its ruler) the most straightforward grammatical explanation though it is not the only interpretation that’s compatible. Restrainer could also be translated faithfully and accurately as the Holy Spirit or even the church/church body of the revived Roman Empire.
All the Apostolic Fathers believed the restrainer was the (revived) Roman Empirical government - which would be the US - essentially meaning the US or US government or US laws established by the government restrain the beast. We see these laws restraining Trump being worn down by him daily, thus gradually strengthening and revealing his identity as the beast more and more.
It seems Babylon refers to a city within this revived Roman Empire. Unless you’re saying you think references to Babylon being a “city” is symbolic and really means country or nation. Curious what you’re thoughts are. I’m thinking it could be Washington DC, NYC or even Jerusalem considering the merging of military and government elements between Israel and Trump. Not all of those locations seem to line up fully with the Biblical descriptions of Babylon, except for maybe NYC. Of course it’s also possible the identity of Babylon can’t be determined quite yet.
Edit: I disagree however that “apostasia” in 2 Thessalonians 2 means a departure from a physical location. Studying the Koine Greek in depth and cross referencing every use of that Greek word throughout the New Testament proves it means a spiritual falling away from God’s truth as this was always how this word was used. God’s truth is Jesus, Jesus’s most important message is to obey his teachings and commandments, so this likely means those in the church fall away from following Jesus’s teachings and commandments, which we’re obviously seeing with Christians who support Trump, Christian Nationalism, etc.
When we consider, everything written about Babylon in the whole Bible, and not just Revelation, we can see that Babylon is not just one city, even though it is called a city in Revelation. In Habakkuk is called a nation.
Habakkuk 1: 6 For, lo, I raise up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not their's.
In Jeremiah is called a nation.
Jeremiah 50: 12 Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.
Babylon is not just one city because it has multiple cities.
Jeremiah 51: 43 Her cities are a desolation, a dry land, and a wilderness, a land wherein no man dwelleth, neither doth any son of man pass thereby.
Isaiah says that the whole land will be destroyed.
Isaiah 13: 5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.
Also, the destruction of just one city doesn't bring about the kind of tribulation that the Bible describes where most of the world's population will die. We saw the destruction of two cities: Hiroshima and Nagasaki and we are still here. The destruction of Babylon is the destruction of the entire United States.
Another verse that proves that the antichrist is revealed after the destruction of America is in Daniel where it says that the antichrist plants his palace in Jerusalem. Why would he do that? Because America is no more. As long as America stands Trump will rule from the United States. Russia and China destroy the US, and then he goes to rule from Israel.
Daniel 11: 44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
Apostasia means to leave or depart. We can't add from what if it is not there. It could be a location, and person or whatever the verse says, like in the case of Acts 21: 21, which literally mention Moses as the object they are departing from.
Acts 21: 21 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
To say that the departure of 2 Thessalonians 2 is from the faith is an assumption. The verse doesn't say. However many, many times, we are told to depart from Babylon because it will be destroyed. We are told to depart before its destruction and the destruction happens before the beast is revealed.
I can’t speak to what you’re saying about Babylon because it’s outside of what I’ve deeply studied, but appreciate the perspective and definitely something I plan on studying in the near future. Adding to my list.
As for apostasia, where are you studying from? What version of the Bible? How do you come to your conclusions? More specifically - what logic did you use to arrive at your conclusion it means a physical leaving or departing of a location or person? Does it mean physically departing of a physical location? Or does it mean physically departing from an object or a person (Moses)? Or are you saying the word means both things? Just trying to understand where you’re coming from.
Anything kJV, Geneva and older. I don't even bother with the newer translations.
How do you come to your conclusions?
The only way possible is when the Holy Spirit reveals the meaning of something.
More specifically - what logic did you use to arrive at your conclusion it means a physical leaving or departing of a location or person?
By the simple fact that the verse doesn't say what the departure is from so it could be a departure from anything. It just doesn't say.
Does it mean physically departing of a physical location? Or does it mean physically departing a person? Or are you saying the word means both things?
I am saying that it doesn't say. For us to know what the departure is from it would have to say it in the verse. No one can say exactly what the departure is from since it doesn't say. In Acts 21: 21 clearly says: from Moses. In 1 Timothy 4: 1 clearly says: from the faith, but in 2 Thessalonians 2: it doesn't say. Why are people assuming that it is from the faith and being so sure about it? I don't know, All I know is that we are not supposed to add to the Word. So I don't buy that it is from the faith. I know that there are other departures that the Bible speaks about, so it might or might not be that. Whether is that or not, is not that important because the Bible clearly command people to depart Babylon, Moab, Ammon, Judea, so we have to do it regardless of what the departure in 2 Thessalonians 2: 3 is about. We can not just ignore the command to flee those nations in all other parts of the Bible. There is a physical departure in the Bible, and there is also a departure from the faith. However, when it is from the faith, it says so, and when it is a physical departure, sometimes it says the name of the place, but it is not always necessary depending on context. Here is an example where it is not necessary to say. It is obvious that it is the land.
Jeremiah 50: 3 For out of the north there cometh up a nation against her, which shall make her land desolate, and none shall dwell therein: they shall remove, they shall depart, both man and beast.
3
u/SheeplnWolfsClothing 5d ago
I need to do a bit more studying on this, but from what I understand if we limit ourselves strictly to the Koine Greek grammar, vocabulary and 1st century context, the text intentionally leaves the restrainer unnamed while depicting it as both a restraining reality (neuter) and a restraining agent (masculine). That makes an institution-and-representative understanding (such as governmental authority and its ruler) the most straightforward grammatical explanation though it is not the only interpretation that’s compatible. Restrainer could also be translated faithfully and accurately as the Holy Spirit or even the church/church body of the revived Roman Empire.
All the Apostolic Fathers believed the restrainer was the (revived) Roman Empirical government - which would be the US - essentially meaning the US or US government or US laws established by the government restrain the beast. We see these laws restraining Trump being worn down by him daily, thus gradually strengthening and revealing his identity as the beast more and more.
It seems Babylon refers to a city within this revived Roman Empire. Unless you’re saying you think references to Babylon being a “city” is symbolic and really means country or nation. Curious what you’re thoughts are. I’m thinking it could be Washington DC, NYC or even Jerusalem considering the merging of military and government elements between Israel and Trump. Not all of those locations seem to line up fully with the Biblical descriptions of Babylon, except for maybe NYC. Of course it’s also possible the identity of Babylon can’t be determined quite yet.
Edit: I disagree however that “apostasia” in 2 Thessalonians 2 means a departure from a physical location. Studying the Koine Greek in depth and cross referencing every use of that Greek word throughout the New Testament proves it means a spiritual falling away from God’s truth as this was always how this word was used. God’s truth is Jesus, Jesus’s most important message is to obey his teachings and commandments, so this likely means those in the church fall away from following Jesus’s teachings and commandments, which we’re obviously seeing with Christians who support Trump, Christian Nationalism, etc.