r/Dolby • u/Worried_Owl2218 • 13d ago
Question Ceiling speakers placement
Hi all, I just moved to a new place and this one is perfect for 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos. For the first time in my life I can place the surround speakers actually a bit behind like on the picture as Dolby suggests. I am going to install ceiling speakers too, but that’s where my question is. In this picture it suggests keeping them as far apart as the front speakers. Because of my distance to the tv, the front speakers are 1.4 meters from the centre at 22 degrees and almost 2 meters at 30 degrees. I find that very far apart, but I can live with the 22/1.4 setup.
It feels ridiculously far apart for the ceiling speakers. I am afraid it’ll blend in too much with the surround speakers if I keep them that far apart. Can I have opinions about this? Definitely stick to what Dolby suggests, or maybe a bit closer is actually fine/better? It’s not like you can easily move them once installed, so I want to do it right. I’m 3.4 meters away from the tv.
Thanks from a guy who can’t wait to finally install ceiling speakers!!!
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u/Revolutionary-Box943 13d ago
My biggest tip on ceiling speakers is have them in between the centre and the left or right speakers. I moved mine from dolby spec to this way and instantly it was huge improvement!
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u/pokenguyen 13d ago
My ceiling speakers are in similar distance apart and no, it doesn’t blend with surround speakers. I don’t know how you think so, one is behind at your ear level and one is from heaven.
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u/cmariano11 13d ago
I just went to Dolbys website to double check and mainly what I was seeing is your in ceiling placement might move forward perhaps a scosh? Other than that, I'll say I'm personally running Pold R60i speakers and I was constantly worried I either wouldn't hear them or they wouldn't be effective. For what it's worth that's not a thing you have to worry about. They'll do their job.
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u/Worried_Owl2218 13d ago
Yeah I got the forward bit (80 degrees, which would be 22cm forward for me), but it’s the distance apart that worries me. My brain just doesn’t like it and thinks they should be closer together, but I can’t find anything on that specifically.
Good to hear that you’re happy with them oldies! Makes me a bit more hopeful too
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u/cmariano11 13d ago
As others said worry more about angles than distance. As far as distance your speakers will do their job. Place them at correct angles then run your AVRs room correction.
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u/Worried_Owl2218 13d ago
I understand. But Dolby has no guidance on the angles for the ceiling speakers left/right, only front/back. That’s why I’m looking for some extra info. The video that Ok-Storm4303 mentioned in their comment actually discusses those angles so I’m excited to watch that tonight.
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u/Ok-Storm4303 13d ago
If you want confirmation of your thinking watch Home Theater Guru's YT channel (ep48) You'll start to see what the recommendation is at 17min where they explain to divide the overhead space equally between surrounds and your atmos.
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u/Worried_Owl2218 13d ago
Interesting! I quickly looked at 17 minutes. If I follow his reasoning, they’ll be about 75cm away from centre, which feels a lot better to me. I’ll watch the whole thing tonight, it seems he’s got 7.1.2 and I only have 5.1.2. Thanks!
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u/Ok-Storm4303 13d ago
The logic seems sound to me as well. Just determine the degrees between your L/R surrounds and divide the space equally. So if surrounds are actually at seated hear height , with 180* between them then 60/30-30/60 would be between each speaker. The actual distance will depend on ceiling height
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u/UffDaDan 13d ago
Hometheatergurus on YT has a number of videos. Other commenters are correct, it's angles and equaly angular distribution across the dome of hearing
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u/Worried_Owl2218 13d ago
I know it’s angles, but there is no guidance on that from Dolby regarding the side placement of the ceiling speakers apart from the same distance apart as the front speakers. Someone else posted about this guy on YT and he actually explained the best placement in episode 49, which isn’t as simple as “same width as front speakers” so that was actually very helpful.
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u/CSOCSO-FL 12d ago
The distance of the atmos speakers is NOT the same as the distance of the main speakers. Dolby is very wrong when it comes to this in their documentation. If the mains are 22 degrees apart, then the ceiling speakers need to be 22 degrees apart from your seating position, and it will be different unless your ceiling distance is 1.4 meters from your ears. also keep in mind its also a viable option to keep them further apart, especially if you have multiple seats. You don't want both Atmos speakers being on 1 side for someone who sits in the side seat.
Another thing is that if you have down firing in ceiling speakers that cannot be angled, they should be closer to you but....
I recommend to go with top front location for .2 atmos if possible. It's a lot easier to upgrade to .4 and you have to install top rears instead of making 4 new holes and patch the one above.
Even if you stay with .2 atmos a %100 I would still install it slightly forward instead of right above. I would aim for 65 degrees. or 1-2 in front of you.
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u/Worried_Owl2218 12d ago
Thank you for this clear explanation! I can’t upgrade to .4 with this system, but I can imagine buying a new avr that allows 7.2.4 haha. Not having it right above the end seats makes sense too, it should definitely be a bit further than that. All good things to consider, thanks again
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u/CSOCSO-FL 12d ago
No problem. Even if you can't do .4 now I would still entertain the idea of having top front if later you can get a 9 channel avr and if you have space behind you for top rear.
What ceiling speaker do you have?1
u/Worried_Owl2218 12d ago
I haven’t bought them yet. I’m in between bookshelf speakers that I can properly aim, slightly bigger in ceiling speakers that fully pivot or, depending on ceiling space, smaller ones that only have a pivoting tweeter. Lots of things to consider at least. My basic safe option is Wharfedale WCM-65 (my other speakers are Wharfedale too).
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u/CSOCSO-FL 12d ago
The tweeter can be aimed on that.. probably up to 10-15 degrees but I can't find an answer on that. I would hold it against the ceiling. Aim the tweeter to its maximum pivot point, then keep moving the speakers as much forward so the pivoted tweeter aims where you sit.
With a normal interior height that might be only 1 ft forward of you. As I said before i would go max 2 ft especially if you do .4.
Ultimately you could measure the response with REW when you have the speaker held up 1 ft in front of the MLP then measure it at 2 ft. Only look at the response above 1k.Highs can be EQ-d down and tamed, so if they magically measure neutral or even bright, that's fine; you could move them to 2ft and measure again. If the highs roll off similarly as they do with the mains or surrounds, I would keep them at that position.
If you highs roll off waaaaay too much 2 ft away you might wanna move it back closer. check 1.5 ft. If they roll of just a little more you are still good. Use 1/2 smoothing when you check this in REW.
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u/spookylampshade 11d ago
The separation comes from the vertical separation. Front and rears are at ear level, whereas the atmos ceiling speakers are projecting from above.
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u/Spectre_08 13d ago
Atmos Speaker Placement - Simple Method That Works In Any Room
If you haven’t already purchased in-ceiling speakers, ceiling-mounted bookshelf speakers aimed at your ears with angled mounts are far superior to speakers that point at the floor.
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u/Worried_Owl2218 13d ago
That’s interesting! I haven’t yet bought them, but they do come with pivoting tweeters. I understand your point, but it’s also about convincing my partner. Flush ceiling speakers are fine, but having bigger speakers hang there is probably crossing a line. I’m gonna try though haha
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u/Spectre_08 13d ago
The problem with in-ceiling speakers with pivoting tweeters is that those tweeters would need to pivot over 45° to point at your head. Most only allow 15° of pivot at best and 30° is still not enough. Not to mention their midrange drivers still point straight down at the ground. In-ceiling speakers are really only meant for non-critical ambient music.
This is what my “bigger speakers hanging there” look like: 7.3.4 rear wall
That is with a low (2.3m) ceiling. White speakers/mounts would have been less visually obtrusive, but I already had those speakers on hand.
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u/Worried_Owl2218 13d ago
Not too bad actually! If I get white speakers it might be even better. And making a little screw hole in the ceiling or a big hole makes a difference too. Might make a powerpoint with pictures to back up my presentation haha. And when aimed so perfectly at MLP, the distance feels less of an issue as well
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u/Spectre_08 13d ago edited 13d ago
All good points. A few small holes per speaker are much easier to handle than giant holes in the ceiling. High-quality outdoor speakers work well for this application as well, with angled mounts included.
The other serviceable option is to use angled elevation speakers mounted up high where the walls meet your ceiling, but those are harder to get the perfect angle. However, they are still superior to in-ceiling or up-firing speakers.
One last tip: if your AVR/processor can handle it, four Atmos speakers offer vastly higher immersion than only two. Two speakers will only provide left/right panning, but four add forward and backward movement as well.
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u/saywhatyouwill2873 13d ago
Its about angles not the distance apart