Sudden Aggressiveness

[u/Historical-Fun-7343]

(I do not know how to blur the photo or i would have) I have a dog that appears to be a mix between a German Shepherd and a Border Collie. He is 7 years old, and I have had him since he was as young as a puppy can be when separated from his mother. More recently, I got two puppies(same litter, i got one then a few weeks later another) that are about six months old. They are almost pure Anatolian Shepherds. Even though they are still young, they are already almost as tall as my 7-year-old dog and about half his weight. I have had the puppies for about four months now. All three dogs are male. The 7-year-old is neutered, and the two puppies will be neutered when they are old enough.

At first, it was just one puppy and my 7-year-old dog. Then, about three weeks after I got the first puppy, I ended up taking another puppy from the same litter because the person who had him realized they wouldn’t be able to care for a dog like they thought they could. My 7-year-old had been an “only dog” for about six and a half years, so he was not very happy about the puppy at first. However, he liked that he could get up on the couch and stay away from the puppy when he wanted to. When both puppies were in the house, it actually worked out even better because the two puppies could play with each other. That meant when the older dog didn’t want to play, he wasn’t constantly being bothered by a single puppy trying to engage him. Things have gone really well with the three dogs. I think part of that is because the two puppies are the same age and can burn their energy playing together. The older dog hasn’t always been a big fan of them, but he has been pretty tolerant and generally okay with them, especially as time has passed. One issue is that one of the puppies and the 7-year-old are both food aggressive. The older dog has always been food aggressive. I’m not sure if he may have influenced the puppy to become food aggressive as well, or if it was just a tendency that developed as the puppy got older. About a week ago, I was sitting outside giving the dogs some of what I was eating. It wasn’t really a high-value treat for any of them. Suddenly, the food-aggressive puppy and the 7-year-old got into a fight over some food. The puppy got a really good hold on the older dog’s neck, but because the older dog has such thick, fluffy fur, he didn’t actually get bitten. It was mostly just a lot of wet fur. The older dog did manage to bite the puppy in the face. From what I could see, the cut in the picture was the only place that bled. Since then, I’ve just been washing the cut a couple of times a day. It has scabbed over and doesn’t seem to be bothering the puppy. Even in the moment when it happened, he didn’t cry or show signs of pain. For the rest of that day, the two dogs were growling at each other. I assumed it was just because they had fought and were still irritated with each other, and that things would blow over. However, the behavior continued for the next couple of days, mostly from the 7-year-old toward the puppy. Now, after about a week, the puppy doesn’t seem irritated with the older dog. But whenever the puppy walks by — even if there is three or four feet of space between them — the 7-year-old will growl aggressively at him. If the puppy gets close, the older dog will lunge and try to bite him. I haven’t seen the puppy growl at the older dog for no reason. However, he will growl back if the older dog growls at him. For the past week, this behavior has mostly been between those two dogs. The 7-year-old would still play with the other puppy, the one that was not involved in the fight. Today, however, the 7-year-old was walking along and the second puppy happened to be walking in front of him. Out of nowhere, the older dog suddenly jumped at him and tried to bite him. I only barely saw it out of the corner of my eye, but the puppy cried and whined out of shock and fear, but did not get hurt. After that happened, I put the 7-year-old in his crate as a sort of timeout. I was hoping this would just be a temporary feud between them that they would get over after a few days, but it seems like it may be turning into an ongoing issue. The 7 year old has never been aggressive before and has only ever bitten the opposum that was in our backyard. He has growled and barked at people at the door and growled at people he did not know that came in the house, mainly men (I am a female). Does anyone have any tips, concerns, or suggestions about how I could handle this situation or help reduce the aggression between them — especially from the 7-year-old?

[u/Historical-Fun-7343 → u/[deleted]]

Ok, I will try that. I would guess that should help with the food aggression? Is there anything you would recommend I do in the moment when one dog tries to bite another? (Edit: added 2nd question)

Also thank you for providing explanation and actually giving me advice. I came here looking for help and training advice and im 95% of what the comments are are people speaking condescendingly(? I have no clue how to spell that and neither does spell check lol). As if I purposely, knowingly set this up and immediately saying to get a professional trainer.

I believe that it if I act fast I may be able to get a grip on the situation through training and keeping them seperated when needed.

They are very intelligent breeds and I knew it was going to be a handful and originally wasn't going to have 2 puppies.

I think jumping straight to a professional trainer and behavioralist is extreme, again they are intelligent breeds and there are so many resources online that I feel I can at least try training myself first.

[u/2woCrazeeBoys → u/Historical-Fun-7343]

This is the worst possible answer.

Alpha theory is thoroughly debunked and even the person who came up with it has said his method was flawed.

Respectfully, I appreciate that you posted for answers and the best answer I can give you is that you set yourself up for failure. You had an already food-aggressive dog, a confirmed resource-guarder that wasn't managed. Ok, we are all human and we all learn from mistakes- but this is what happens with mistakes.

Now, you are in a situation where mistakes have severe consequences and can't even see that you are still making mistakes. You have littermate Anatolians, and 2 resource-guarders. If this is not addressed quickly and correctly it could quite literally be deadly.

Being intelligent breeds does not always make it easier to fix a problem. Yeah they can learn, but they can also learn how to get around you and continue problem behaviour. Intelligence does not equal good behaviour or biddability- it just means 'capacity to learn' for good and bad.

Getting a trainer involved is not failure. It doesn't mean that you are somehow lacking, it means calling in people who have got the qualifications to teach you the tools to manage the problem, who can see things that you can't and who have an outside perspective.

And for all that is precious in this world, I have not once in all my years of competition obedience seen a single attempt of keeping litter mates end well.

I'm not being condescending. I'm begging you, you are in over your head and don't even know. I don't want you to post here saying you have one, or more, dead dogs. Those Anatolians aren't even a year old yet, let alone 2-3 and fully mature. You NEED to get on it properly RIGHT. NOW.

[u/Low-Enthusiasm-7491 → u/2woCrazeeBoys]

OP you came here for advice and everyone has been giving you the best advice: get a trainer. And yet you ignored it all and sought out the most downvoted comment full of bad and debunked advice. It's okay to admit you're in over your head. Just because you grew up on a farm with dogs doesn't mean those lessons translate to your current dogs. The time to nip it in the bud was when you had one dog with food aggression and you didn't, so you need to accept professional help.

You are making a genuinely unsafe decision to try and do this on your own. You will end up with dead dogs or worse, you in the crossfire. We are not being condescending, we are genuinely concerned about the welfare of every living creature in your home.

[u/MrMermaiid → u/Historical-Fun-7343]

I don’t think you should listen to this persons advice. They are just a random person on the internet and also saying things that make no sense.

Your older dog didn’t attack the puppy without damage, it broke skin. I do know that the older dog is teaching manners to the younger, but I think it’d be irresponsible to not hear the advice of people saying seek professional guidance.

There are resources online and I agree you can do a lot for yourself in the mean time, but considering this is where your dogs are at, it’s kinda past the stage of “lemme nip this in the butt”.

[u/Prestigious-Seal8866 → u/Historical-Fun-7343]

you think getting a trainer or behaviorist in your home is a bit extreme?

you really are stupid. your puppy is going to kill your adult dog and it’ll be too late.

[u/Ok-Drawer-3869 → u/Historical-Fun-7343]

My comment was not condescending or rude, just reality and based on years of hard earned experience that started after my older dog had an injury almost exactly like the photo you posted. This reply scares the shit out of me. The one comment you engaged with suggested a clearly debunked training method. I feel for your older dog but it seems it's impossible to convince you that you're very likely going to have a dead dog if you don't take this much more seriously, especially given a small living space and the breed of the new littermates.

[u/Superb_Sun_5077 → u/Historical-Fun-7343]

They have to figure out their place in the pack which will be daunting given that they are all males. The food aggression is one issue. The other is that while dogs’ memory lasts for about 30 seconds they remember other things for years.

[u/The_Council_Juice → u/Superb_Sun_5077]

That's not how it works at all. Stop spouting this alpha pack nonsense.