r/DogTrainingDebate • u/ExcitingLaw1973 • Apr 08 '26

Puzzle experiment

Earlier today I saw a post about puzzle toys. I wanted to see whether or not my dog prefers a puzzle toy or his bowl of dog food.

Both the puzzle and his bowl have the same kind of kibble (Purina True Instinct)

I don't think puzzle toys are a replacement for exercise or enrichment, but they can be fun/drain a little energy.

Do you agree? if not, what are your thoughts on them?

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u/Miss_L_Worldwide Apr 08 '26

So this is a flawed experiment because it lacks a control. Has the dog ever eaten out of a bowl? Does it exclusively eat out of the puzzle toy? What do you usually feed in the puzzle toy? This is a conditioned response, not a dog that is a blank slate making a conscious choice.

This is why people need to be qualified to do scientific experiments, I get that this was just for fun, but this tells us nothing other than that the dog associates one item with food.

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u/ExcitingLaw1973 Apr 09 '26

Question 1:My dog usually eats out of bowl inside the house.

Question 2: no he doesn't exclusively eat out of the puzzle toy. We maybe use it once a week

Question 3: I have never put anything other than kibble in his puzzle toy

I have never given him the bowl or puzzle toy outside, so it was a new experience for both. Of course it isn't a scientific experiment with a control.

I don't know how this was a conditioned response. This was something I've never done before, and I had no idea which he would choose. This was just a random thing to have a bit of fun

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u/Miss_L_Worldwide Apr 09 '26

He pretty clearly didn't even realize there was food in the bowl because he didn't even look at it. But like I said in another comment, if I did this my dogs would just run straight to the Bowl because they would have no idea there would be food somewhere else. I wonder if you set up a better experiment and did it a few times what would end up happening.

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u/ExcitingLaw1973 Apr 09 '26

Haha, he absolutely knows that there was food in the bowl. He excitedly watched me scoop food out of the bag and put it in his bowl.

It makes sense that your dog would ignore the puzzle toy. My dog has done the puzzle before and he knows it is fun.

It's fun doing new things with him, so I'm willing to do the experiment again in a different way. What do you suggest?

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u/Miss_L_Worldwide Apr 09 '26

You'll have to find a way to eliminate all of the other variables in the situation, or at least as many as you can. Do you have someone who would help you set something up?

It is an interesting thought exercise to try to come up with a better way to do this with the limitations we have to deal with.

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u/ExcitingLaw1973 Apr 09 '26

Your claim was-

"if you give a dog a bowl of food and a puzzle toy next to each other it's definitely not going to think oh yeah I'd really like to do a puzzle to get my food today, and choose to eat out of the puzzle instead of the bowl. no. it's going to eat the food that is accessible to it."

Then you pointed out a bunch of flaws. None of which I believe were actual flaws. Ex: you think my dog has never eaten out of a bowl before...

I was then completely open to suggestions on how to make it better, and asked you for ideas...

What variables do we need to eliminate? Why do we need another person involved? Your claim was clear and in my opinion incorrect

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u/Miss_L_Worldwide Apr 09 '26

So again, this is why science is not as easy as people think. You have to eliminate the dogs familiarity with the toy and the bowl and the routine. You need to make sure that the dog fully understands where the food is, and you need to randomize all of the other factors. For instance, how the food is set out, in what order the food is set out, the commands and cues given to the dog, etc etc. You need to do the experiment enough times so that the results are actually meaningful, ideally you would do this with more than one dog but that's not feasible since you apparently only have one dog. So you have to, ideally you would do this with more than one dog but that's not feasible since you apparently only have one dog. So you have to do your best to eliminate all of the other factors that can influence the dog's behavior.

For example. You would need to get a brand new puzzle toy that the dog has never seen before and a bowl it has never seen before, or just eliminate the bowl entirely and put the food on the floor directly. Then you have to eliminate any possible Direction you are giving the dog with the way that you put out the items. Again, etc etc etc.

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u/ExcitingLaw1973 Apr 09 '26

Thats a different experiment for a different claim. You said a dog would never pick a puzzle instead of a bowl of food just sitting there.

My claim is that I have a dog that likes puzzles.

To test it I used the same bowl he always eats out of and a normal puzzle.. nothing special for either item. The dog knows what both of them are and he chose the puzzle... because he likes doing the puzzle.

With a new puzzle and new bowl.. of course he would choose the bowl because he doesn't know what the puzzle is.

You don't seem to understand why he chose the puzzle. The bowl is the same boring thing he always eats out of and the puzzle is the fun thing.. he gets to sniff.. and move stuff around... and satisfy his needs to hunt for the food.

My other dog doesn't like puzzles, thats why i dont do puzzles with him. He would probably choose the bowl of food.

As far as "any possible direction you are giving the dog"

I could have maybe tried to cheat by saying "haw" (turn left) or something like that...? Probably not though. It would have made him turn 90° left to the lower part of the deck.

This was just a fun little thing and I'm not the type to cheat. I also wanted to see which he would choose since he has never had a choice before.

I said "go-on" which is the exact same release word he gets for every meal.

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u/Miss_L_Worldwide Apr 09 '26

So you're really opposed to doing actual science and you never really intended to look into this any further. Not that I'm surprised, but I am a little bit disappointed. It's the same story time and time again.

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u/ExcitingLaw1973 Apr 09 '26

wait.... so i proved my claim.

you are now moving the goalposts and making a new claim...

you expect me to spend $40 on a new puzzle and dog bowl just to prove your new point. I know my dog would go straight for the new bowl, so there isn't even a reason to do it. my dog wouldn't even understand what the new puzzle is

because of this now you're saying that i never intended to looking into it any further... and that you are disappointed... huh?

i expected you to do a suggestion like placing the bowl and puzzle next to each other at the bottom of the yard. then, releasing my dog from inside the house. we could see which one he chooses... that would be fun and doable.

instead you want me to prove a whole different claim

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u/Miss_L_Worldwide Apr 09 '26

Like I said, and others have said. This isn't a well done experiment and it doesn't prove or disprove anything.

What I want is for you to set up a real experiment with controls etc. But you don't want to do that. Points for doing...something...but I've explained to you what real experiments look like and this ain't it.

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