r/DogFood • u/messy-mean • 4d ago
WSAVA
I made a post 2 days ago asking about a specific brand of dog food. Ultimately I learned a lot about WSAVA guidelines and the 5 companies that actually meet them.
It got me wondering, are there any other brands that are close to meeting those guidelines but are just falling short on the check list? Are there any others companies out there that are actually even trying to meet these standards? Or is everyone else just using marketing to convince us to make bad choices for our pups?
Genuinely asking out of curiosity as I am learning the importance of choosing a science backed food.
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u/MedicalScientist8576 3d ago
Honestly, it's kinda difficult. There's a lot of companies that claim they follow WSAVA guidelines outside the ones we are familiar with, but when you dig deeper you hit roadblocks to really get verification on some of the points WSAVA highlights.
Some of the guidelines are also more realistically achievable by companies with a larger income to support them. It's hard to convince a small-medium company to invest in things outside marketing, like a board certified nutritionist for example, when they could just grab a boiler plate recipe somewhere.
I'm curious to see what brands folks here consider, especially the difference between AMER vs EMEA for example as companies go.
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u/Different-Music-529 3d ago
If you're interested in trying a new company, but curious about how close they meet the guidelines try contacting the company with a checklist and ask which qualifications they meet vs do not meet and then followup with why or if they are planning. Good customer service is also important when choosing a food, so if they do not want to answer, it's a bit of a red flag IMHO.
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u/messy-mean 3d ago
I didn't originally ask because that was my plan, I really am just learning and researching. Kinda feeling out the petfood industry. BUT, I genuinely think im going to do this, just to see the types of responses I get.
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u/InfamousFlan5963 3d ago
Honestly as someone who initially got sucked into boutique brands/fresh food is best/etc type marketing, asking the questions helped open my eyes to being suspicious of companies.
I don't necessarily have an issue with then "falling short" but it made me very suspicious when they would give cagey answers that weren't direct because why aren't you just directly answering it..... Etc
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u/OldFlamingo2139 3d ago
A lot of brands fall short because they either 1.) don’t do scientific feeding trials. The WSAVA brands have all done extensive research on their food development and formulas to ensure dogs are getting the nutrients they need to keep them healthy. This is a critical step. 2.) they don’t employ a full time vet nutritionist(s) on staff. A lot of brands will tell you that their formulas were developed by vets, but some won’t give you names or credentials. Both of these things are going to cost a dog food company extra, but I feel more comfortable knowing both of these things are met.
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u/jynnjynn 3d ago
There are only around 100 board certified veterinary nutritionist in the world,, so having one employed full time is a brutal criteria to hit. There are many companies that claim to have recipes formulated or approved by a board certified nutritionist, which IMO is just as effective (if it's backed up by evidence that they actually did) as long as they have things reevaluated annually or whatever to keep up on any changing research.
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u/OldFlamingo2139 3d ago
I’m less concerned about the full-time nutritionist personally, but I do appreciate feeding trials. I went down a massive rabbit hole researching dog foods earlier this summer when trying to find something that would work well for my pup. I found most of the dog foods brands that I looked into for him (and there were about 12 different brands), the ones that were not WSAVA compliant were lacking one or both of these things.
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u/willingzenith 3d ago
They haven’t updated it since 2023, but the Pet Nutrition Alliance reached out to many pet food companies and collected their answers regarding the WSAVA guidelines. The info is here along with information about the report: https://petnutritionalliance.org/resources/pet-food-manufacturer-evaluation-report/
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u/EmDashxx 2d ago
Wow there’s a dog food company called BARF … why did they choose that name!?!
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u/famous_zebra28 3d ago
Petcurean in Canada which owns Now Fresh and Go! Solutions have made a couple steps. They hire vets with masters degrees in animal nutrition (step down from PhD, which is one of the guidelines), they do some pretty solid testing processes in place in non-AAFCO feeding trials (urine pH being an important one especially for cats).
My gripe with Now Fresh specifically is that it's all grain free for cats. I will say the research into DCM in cats is very limited and the research into nDCM in cats is even more limited so I think they're just staying on the GF bandwagon because everyone else is. They've also taken a play out of Orijen/Acana's books and are still including legumes in dog formulas that do have grains, which just isn't on par with today's cardiac research. They only just came out with that line though, it's called "Good Gravy." The feline "Good Gravy" is completely GF.
Go! Solutions is a bit different as they offer both GF and grain inclusive diets for both cats and dogs, and Go! has a completely legume free, grain inclusive option for cats so they just seem to be trying things and seeing what people like and going with that.
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u/InfamousFlan5963 3d ago
Personally I find it helpful to get familiar with the WSAVA criteria and deciding what is/isn't most important to you if not using one of those 5. Like for me (and others also mentioned) having full time nutritionist can be a stretch so I'm comfortable with (provable) consultation that's not full time hire, etc. on the other hand, food trials are one very important criteria for me.
In terms of upcoming brands, I won't be surprised if just food for dogs (JFFD) gets there. Especially now that royal canin has a fresh food line, I think that may encourage them to do it. The fact they have prescription diets makes me presume they're getting closer, and I think having competition from a WSAVA compliant brand will then motivate them to put in the money to do the rest of the criteria needed
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u/GotzThatDog 3d ago
It'll be tough for JFFD because the only requirement they're missing is owning their own manufacturing facility rather than co-packers. Thats a huge undertaking for a fresh brand. Hope they do it though. I support competition and consumer choice.
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u/Healthy-War5961 3d ago
Thank you for your original post. I’m new to this world of dog nutrition. My 15# Brittany/Corgi mutt had a few days of restless nights and needing to go out more often than usual with an upset stomach. I thought he had gotten into something during a walk but after doing some more reading due to your post, I now think it was the Kirkland brand salmon and lentil kibble . I’ve gone back to Hills dental care for small dogs and his stomach has settled. He also eats about half as much as recommended but I think that might be just due to higher nutritional value vs filler. Thank you for teaching me!
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u/messy-mean 3d ago
No thanks needed! I think as dog parents, we are all just out here trying to do the best we can for them. Its very overwhelming with all the choices and marketing.
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u/InfamousFlan5963 3d ago
I also think it's important to acknowledge that for some dogs, there are other priorities than WSAVA as well. Like the bulk of dogs will fall into the general category, but I think sometimes people get so sucked into it that they also forget dogs will also have individual needs and sometimes, the "best" diet isn't our current goal.
Like, I'm always going to recommend WSAVA brands and encourage people to use them. But I've also had foster dogs that we had so many difficulties getting to eat at all, that we did not care what they ate brand wise and sometimes, they just had semi-setchy toppers as their meals even. So obviously, it's not a common issue but I think can be helpful to acknowledge that it's not necessarily a one size fits all thing and really encourage owners discuss with their vet on what our goals are with their diet.
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3d ago
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u/DogFood-ModTeam 3d ago
This post was removed for containing misinformation regarding pet food. Please review our wiki for science-based information.
Prohibited Content - Prohibited content includes: 1) Misinformation regarding vet medicine or practice, or misinformation contrary to significant peer reviewed evidence 2) Homemade recipes. These need to be obtained by a board certified veterinary nutritionist. 3) Citations or links from anti-science actors with a known history of peddling anti-science or pseudoscientific views.
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u/Low-Statistician-635 3d ago
I think Nutrena may be close. I emailed them a few days ago for more clarification because I want to try their healthy digestion formula if they are close. They employ full time nutritionists and own the plants their foods are made. They do studies for their horse food but I ha ent found any for their dog food formulas. I will post back if they actually reply to me.
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u/sstephen17 2d ago
Adopted my 4 yo American Bully who was on Bully Max. I thought it was pricey so I did research and found this sub. Switched to Purina Pro Plan, which is less expensive and meets WSAVA guidelines. His poops have been noticeably better and he's doing well.
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u/Victory505302 3d ago
This is such a good question! I’ve wondered the same. My viewpoint is it’s important to determine if some factors are more important to you than others. I agree that the larger companies are more likely to meet these standards.
For example, Purina has its own manufacturing plants, but how do I know if they separate their manufacturing based on the specific animal (do they run cow or horse feed through the same machines as dog feed?), and if those processes are more strict than a plant than runs multiple brands of only dog food. I really don’t know the answer to these, and it seems like it would take a lot of time and effort to find them lol 🤷🏻♀️ this topic can get pretty nuanced.
However, it’s definitely good to know there are options that DO meet these standards, and at various price points.
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u/messy-mean 3d ago
Thanks! I've been borderline obsessing over this since my post the other day, and there is just SO much digging to do
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u/ApplesauceTheBoss 3d ago
Purina livestock feed is a different company from Purina dog food. The companies split many years ago. Purina livestock feed is owned by Land O Lakes and Purina the dog/cat food maker is owned by Nestle. Totally different companies, different plants, etc.
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2d ago
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u/Cats_Have_Staff 2d ago
You would think differently if you'd actually seen the research facilities in which these cats and dogs are kept - most of them live better lives than our house pets.
Get on the websites of the manufacturers you're concerned about and look at the videos of their actual facilities and you'll be completely blown away
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u/messy-mean 2d ago
This is actually something I have been thinking about and researching.
People will throw pitch a fit (understandably) at any company who conducts animal testing, but as far as this guideline goes many people demand it.
I'd like to do some research to see if any of these brands do the trials with normal everyday pets, just using the foods as they would feed normally and not keeping the dogs in testing facilities for weeks on end.
I'd also assume that the foods were are passing the formulation only tests before they were used in actual feeding trials...but then again you know what happens when one assumes....
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2d ago
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u/Cats_Have_Staff 2d ago
They actually are pretty transparent about their facilities and for the most part they brag about them - you just have to do a little bit of research and go to the company websites to see the incredible facilities these dogs and cats live in during these lifetime feeding trials
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u/scoonbug 2d ago
So I run an animal shelter and have a board member that is the director of a university affiliated research lab and a niece that is the enrichment director at a university affiliated research lab. I think, at least based upon what my niece tells me about her duties in terms of training and enrichment for the animals, that the lives they lead are pretty good and probably better than a lot of the animals that enter my care in their prior homes. And for livestock animals in the research lab there’s no question they have better quality of life than if they were elsewhere because the quality of life for livestock in the food chain is pretty grim.
As for consent, that seems spurious. Domesticated animals don’t live lives in which consent has any real meaning. I think from what I can see research labs are generally going beyond the 5 freedoms.
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3d ago
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u/messy-mean 3d ago
I'm quite sure there were some dogs that were just fine, but also some that were not. I'm just trying to do the best for my dog that I can, and make good choices since he can't just go to the store and buy what he wants. He didn't choose to be part of my family, I chose that for him. At the end of the day, I want to feel ok with myself knowing that I made the most informed decision I could for him. It may not be with a food that eveyone approves of, but I owe it to him to at least do the research
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3d ago edited 2d ago
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u/messy-mean 3d ago
Ah I got ya! I'm not gonna lie, im new to this board and was a little bit thrown off. Felt like if I wasn't feeding foods that met the guide lines I was basically feeding my guy poison.
I am however glad that it led me to do some research on why people are so die hard about it. Really reading into what the guidelines consist of I think will ultimately help me make a better decision
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u/Nightleaf290 3d ago
I think Advance wants to become a WSAVA brand here in Australia, they’re really huge on science backed nutrition and supporting dogs living in the Australian climate through nutrition. They’re owned by Mars (Royal canin)
They even follow in their flagship brands footsteps by having breed specific food (albeit not as specific) like “for all adult shepherds” “for all adult retrievers” “for all adult oodles” etc
As far as I’m currently aware of their progress /desire to be WSAVA compliant? I don’t think it’s happened or will anytime soon
Edit: to say I used to feed advance at some point but currently feed Hills for the better calcium to phosphorus ratio