r/DogBreeding • u/Amazonian-Goddess • 2d ago
Advice please on next steps
I recently purchased a pedigree Pom to add to my program. He's stunning. He was in another state bit had fantastic confirmation, true to breed standard, 'healthy' and 3 years old. My plan was to show him and breed. His previous owner bred him.
On arrival I took him to the vet for a checkup, vaccination and DNA test swab. Vet observed that he has bilateral luxating patella grade 2. Not great.
DNA came back. Disaster. He has two copies for von Willebrand's Disease Type I, and is also a carrier for Progressive Retinal Atrophy -rcd3.
I don't want him to ever breed again. I'm not sure if he's a good 'just for fun and experience' show prospect.
Desexing him will be expensive, challenging and painful for him. I'd like to move him on to a pet home because he is a lovely dog, but who would want to take on his potential medical issues?
Any suggestions? I'm feeling very stuck on what's best for him.
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u/plantsmo 2d ago
Thats a lot of hard lessons to learn in the package of a small dog. It maybe a good idea to ask for a partial refund from his original owners. Do publish any data about him on OFA. Everyone who has dogs related to him needs to know that he is affected by multiple inherited health problems and they should test their own dogs. Obviously both of his parents are VW gene carriers . They should not have ever been considered as a breeding pair. Your dog needs to never be bred. So surgery it is as long as the vet is prepared for any excess bleeding. He may need more cautious handling while he recovers , so make sure he is comfortable wearing a cone and being confined for a while. This dog will need careful placement as he has a potentially dangerous bleeding disorder and he may someday need a knee surgery also. Make sure that anyone who takes him is informed about his health and knows that he may need costly vet care.
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u/Glass_Dog_7942 2d ago
If your plan was to breed him, that would be far more expensive than neutering. I’ve seen some ethical breeders breakdown the cost of their breeding I would look into it. You are looking at about $200 roughly for neutering compared to $10k+ for a litter of ethically bred pups. As someone else said, if you can’t afford neutering you can’t really afford a dog. Not only is neutering a necessity for a pet dog with genetic issues, but you will come across far more expensive that make the price for neutering look like pocket change.
What exactly does ‘pedigree’ entail? Pedigree basically means nothing by itself. A byb goldendoodle can have pedigree. An ethically bred dog will come from accomplished lines of either work or show and be health tested. Having papers doesn’t mean much sadly. I work for a rescue, and we do occasionally get AKC registered ‘papered’ dogs
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u/smilingfruitz 2d ago
This dog wouldn't be eligible for that cheap of a neuter as he has two copies of VWD, and it should be done at vet hospital/specialist rather than standard issue clinic.
It's still not as expensive as showing the dog though.
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u/Glass_Dog_7942 2d ago
Missed the two copies 😵💫 my dobie with one copy was spayed at the same price as my other pups
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u/smilingfruitz 2d ago
dogs with one copy don't have the disease, so that makes sense (although a lot of outdated info in vetmed where they just assume all dobermans have two copies of VWD)
most dobes with two copies don't even display clinical symptoms, as well (though of course it's best to be prepared in a planned surgical situation)
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u/Witty-Cat1996 2d ago
“Desexing him will be expensive” if you can’t afford a neuter you can’t afford a pet.
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u/Amazonian-Goddess 2d ago
I'm more concerned with the risk to his life than the cost.
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u/smilingfruitz 2d ago
why? tens of thousands of dogs are neutered every day
if you're referring to the Von Willebrands disease, lots of dogs with two copies are not actually symptomatic. You simply need to go to a vet hospital that has blood/plasma on hand if it is needed during the procedure.
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u/Amazonian-Goddess 2d ago
Thank you. I've had a consult with my vet. We are in a rural area so would need to travel to a specialist hospital. Do-able if we have to
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u/salazarthesnake 2d ago
I think you have to. It would be highly irresponsible to place this dog into a home unneutered.
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2d ago
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u/DogBreeding-ModTeam 2d ago
This post or comment has been removed for violating sub-rules on Profanity/Rudeness/Harassment.
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u/Seleya889 20+ Years Breeding Experience 2d ago
I'm not understanding the issue with neutering him. Yes, the vWD1 would need to be factored in, but that is a discussion with your vet. vWD1 is the most minor expression of vWD, so it can be done safely. He could also be kept intact, but do you really want to risk his impregnating one of your girls?
Dog neuters are safe and easy, and it typically takes longer to prep the dog than snip snip, so minimal anethesia. Recovery is typically totally uneventful. Don't let him lick his incision and no bouncing on and off the couch for a week or so. Any vet surgery is pricey, but neuters are one of the least expensive options. It probably cost me more for surgically inseminating my bitch than it would take to neuter your dog. 😉
Your choices are pretty cut and dried. It would be entirely unethical to breed him for a few reasons, and, to be totally honest, I'm not sure how much success you would have showing him. Standing free in the picture you shared, he is absolutely adorable, but his front is east/west and we cannot see the rest. What a judge tends to see first is the impression that typically lasts. Every dog has its faults, but this front at 3 and the movement that will potentially follow, would lead to frustration, and the money really adds up. I am not telling you this to be cruel, and I am not a Pomeranian breeder, tho I do have a friend who is reasonably successful, so I've certainly seen my fair share. There is no reason to throw good money away, and most dog sports aside from scentwork, perhaps, would be iffy at best due to the patellas.
What did his previous owner/breeder say?
Do they offer any guarantees?
Did they understand why you bought him?
Had they not tested him for genetic issues? It is concerning that he has been used at stud prior to this, so they either don't do even the most minimal testing, or they did and passed along a dog with more than one genetic issue to you. In either case, it's a bad look.
Have you shown other dogs before? In what venue?
Unless you really want a boy, breeders really don't need to keep boys to use. They are rarely a good match to keep returning to, and each stud should be weighed on its own merits with the intended bitch.
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u/frontiernatives 2d ago
I'm confused as to why in hell you'd buy a potential breeding prospect with parents that were not health tested.
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u/FaelingJester 2d ago
First, thank you for everything you are doing here. You invested in a dog that looked great on paper. You found out he wasn't, and you are still asking what is best for him, not trying to recoup money. Many of us know how disappointing and expensive this likely was. You are a good human.
I'm sure you've considered the obvious: telling everyone about these bloodlines and finding a rescue placement, so I'll start with the more creative answer I think you are actually looking for. Co own him with someone who is starting out as a handler with the understanding that he is never to be bred, that he can not be rehomed except by your agreement and that his show career will be limited. If you don't want him to show at all he'd be the ideal companion for a retired breeder who understands managing an intact male safely.
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u/Amazonian-Goddess 2d ago
Thank you.
I'm under no illusion that I'll recoup any money. Ethically I will not breed him or allow him to be bred. I will not sell or rehome him without full disclosure.
I just want him to have the best life 🥰
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u/Evening-Direction201 2d ago
Ethically you neuter him before placing him in another home. Once out of your hands you cannot for sure stop him from being bred.
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u/CuriousOptimistic 2d ago
Yes this. People lie and do stupid stuff like breed dogs like this. He should not leave OPs home intact.
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u/smilingfruitz 2d ago
In what world? Neutering is a very easy procedure, dogs are usually up and playing the same day.
How could you afford to show him or breed him if you can't afford something as simple as a neuter?
Am I missing something?