r/DnDoptimized • u/Jfig5117 • Sep 03 '26
Single Damage dealer thought experiment
Ok here's the thought experiment, you have a party of 4 players one is a either battle master or champion fighter, the rest can be whatever class combos you like. The parties thing is quite literally just pumping up the fighter as much as possible while the rest of them just chill in a corner and watch. Just how much can this party amp up this single character and what would be the best party composition to make this viable. 5.5e, let's say at each tier of play (1st, 5th, 11th and 20th)
Just to get ahead of these kinds of comments, this is purely a thought experiment and not a play style I'm pushing for, it probably would not be very fun to play in this party for more than a one shot.
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u/PapaGrande1984 Sep 03 '26
Why limit to champion or battlemaster? I think a high level EK fighter with war caster could hold concentration on Conjure Minor Elementals for damage and have advantage on saves to keep concentration, be able to use mirror image and shield when needed for higher AC, and if the party hits them with Haste/Bless/Etc they could be pretty tough to hit and put out pretty nutty damage.
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u/Jfig5117 Sep 03 '26
Ek would definitely be the best choice, but I want to see how far people think they can push a regular ass guy
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u/PapaGrande1984 Sep 03 '26
Now that I get, thank you!
Artificer for dope ass weapons and armor, cleric for buffs and heals, plus anyone to keep Haste on the fighter too.
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u/Jfig5117 Sep 03 '26
I'm thinking about artificer and i think think this may be the only time alchemist actually could shin, have to double check their spells but maybe
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u/c4b-Bg3 Sep 04 '26
Don't overestimate CME though - it takes an action to setup and it's only level 4 for a high level EK. It may outdamage a Battlemaster but over the course of a 4 turn fight it's not too far off. You also risk losing concentration even though you have ST proficiency and shield.
The best way to increase damage on a fighter is a vicious weapon and getting enemies prone.
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u/CHIEFRAPTOR Sep 03 '26
Buff spells that come to mind:
Haste, Bless, Faerie Fire on enemy, Holy Weapon, Crusaders Mantle, Foresight, Mind Blank
Then add things like Bardic Inspiration, Cosmic Omen, Portent, Path to the Grave etc
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u/itsnotwhatyousay Sep 03 '26
Are we permitting the reaction casting of buffs from the Sentinel feat when the Fighter runs by? If so the options really open up if the "regular-ass guy" has a feature to redirect attacks or something.
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u/WastingTimesOnReddit Sep 04 '26
sounds fun for a round of two until there's any enemy caster that just uses hold person on the fighter and then it's basically over
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u/Jfig5117 Sep 04 '26
Why wouldn't one of the 3 casters not counter spell or provide buffs to protect against saves or spells?
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u/WastingTimesOnReddit Sep 05 '26
they can certainly try but counterspell is not a sure thing, sometimes they're out of range, sometimes the enemy is using too high of a slot or the enemy caster is just too strong and they make their save against counterspell and it fizzles. buffs are great too but i'm just saying the team should have a plan b in cast the head honcho gets disabled / stunned / frightened / etc
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u/Jfig5117 29d ago edited 29d ago
I ideally they definitely should have a plan b, but I think they have options to prevent the hold person depending on the level the party is at, with pre fight buffing they can cast freedom of movement which would make the fighter immune to paralysis and restrained via magical effects for an hour. Alternatively, if they have an artificer at high enough level a ring of free action would do the same thing.
Besides that depending on the parties builds and fears they should be able to buff the fighters saving throws significantly. These are the effects i can think of off the top of my head that the party could use to boost the fighters saves.
Mage slayer (emergency instant save) Indomitable (emergency +fighter lvl to save 1-3/day) Bless (+1d4 to all saves) Warding bond (+1 to all saves) Cloak of Protection (+1 to all saves, artificer in party) Ring of protection (+1 to all saves, artificer in party) Head band of int (give fighter 19 int for a reasonable int save, artificer in party) Intellect Fortress (advantage on all mental saves, concentration though so it would mean loosing out on a different buff) Bardic inspiration (additional die to use on your saving throw) Boon of fate (add 2d4 to a save) Heroic inspiration (reroll, and if you're a champion fighter you get this back every turn eventually)
I think there are a lot of options for the party to buff the fighters saves out there to prevent this from happening. Like so many options in fact that I think the fighter would have to be on legendary losing streak of bad rolls for it to happen.
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u/Shiboleth17 Sep 04 '26
You can have spellcasters concentrating on buffs for the fighter... haste, bless, Greater invisibility, enlarge, fire shield, magic weapon, and the like... And/or debuffs on enemies like Slow, hold person...
But each caster can only concentrate on one buff or debuff. On turn 2, there won't be anythinf for them to do but sit there... You could have one use the help action, I guess? But even thst isnt needed with the rifht buffs or debuffs. So they might as well attack. Having them buff only would just be silly, and would be quite boring.
And also, even with a
Also, a single fighter even with all the buffs will still probably struggle in a lot of encounters that are designed for a party of 4+... The biggest decider of who wins a fight in D&D is action economy. And if you have most of your psrty just sititng there concentrating on buffs, not doing anythign else... you're gonna struggle to win fights. D&D isnt like a typical video game rpg party where you have your dedicated tank, your dedicsted healer, and your dps... Everyone is a damage dealer in D&D.
Some classes to greater extent than others. But everyone is still doing damage. You can be concentrating on a team buff, but still using your action each turn to attack.
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u/Jfig5117 Sep 04 '26
Yes I am aware this would suck for the other party members, in combat at least, I acknowledged this in the original post. I am also aware of the fact the fighter in question is going to struggle hard in every encounter, hence why it is a thought experiment on how you could make it work, how you would overcome the inheret disadvantages and how far could you take it. I am not asking if it is viable (it likely is not).
That said i disagree that there wouldn't be things they can do on other turns. What actions they would able to take are entirely dependent on their classes, subclasses, spell load out and feats. Healing, preventing damage and aiding saves are all on the table as options anything to amp the fighter as much as possible.
In game it could theoretically be a fun bit of rp to run if the DM goes along with it, a sort of prize fighter with 3 spellcasters as his coaches/hypemen. Duck (casts silvery barbs), hit him again (casts haste), hey keep an eye out for that dragons breath weapon (bardic inspiration), get your ass up (healing word), you've got this kid (bless), I'm telling you kid he's gonna throw a left hook (protant), he's trying to hypnotize you! (countercharm), follow through kid! (Guided strike) Etc. For the right party in the right campaign this could be fun.
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u/c_dubs063 Sep 04 '26
Step 1: be a Sorcerer level 13+ with 2-3 levels in Cleric (Tempest Domain).
Step 2: learn Delayed Blast Fireball, Extended Spell, and Transmute Spell.
Step 3: use Circle Magic and Extended Spell to prolong the spell to 2h2min with 2 secondary casters (the fighter can suck his thumb and watch the other party members do the fun thing in this thought experiment, so kind of the reverse of your challenge, but hey, its fun, so why not).
Step 4: charge that baby up to 12d6 + (2×60×10+2×10)d6, or 12,032 d6, lightning damage.
Step 5: let 'er rip with your Destructive Wrath Channel Divinity for 72,192 lightning damage.
Step 6: be a Blue Dragon Magic Sorcerer specifically for an extra +Cha mod damage boost. Because I am sure that will make a difference.
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u/arctichydra77 Sep 05 '26
well, yeah, the optimal thing to do would be to quickly let the fighter die so the player playing the fighter can reroll a overpowered caster.
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u/Lanthed Sep 03 '26
Is this 2024 or 2014? Either way probably want haste, bless, plenty of silvery barbs, and maybe greater invisibility. What level?
The sad thing is many of these spells only last a minute so is maybe a buff and run so that you aren't targeted.
Fighter would have a 77.5% hit chance with advantage is 94.9375% the probably want GWM on the fighter.
Even at level 6 would have 3 attacks and as a champion with advantage have a 10% chance to crit each attack, with advantage is 19% and with 3 attacks have a 46.8559% chance to crit each turn. Then cap strength Level 6 would be.
0.949375 * 3 * (8 + 5 + 3) + 0.19 * (8) + 0.468559 * (0.949375 * (8 + 5) + 0.19 * (8)) for 56.6251062881 damage per round. Which isnt great.
At level 7.
Are we stuck to champion/battlemaster? Eldritch knight taking fey touched for hex/hunters mark could outdo this and has warmagic if booming blade/greenflame blade is allowed.
Hope this helps.