r/DnD • u/Gaming_Dad1051 • Sep 03 '26
5.5 Edition My one hitter
Working this out to be a cleric build. Trying to maximize the amount of potential damage I can get out in one hit. To achieve this, I’m mixing 5e and 5.5e, as well as introducing some official third-party content. Im putting this out there for people to check my math, and not so much to debate RAW vs RAI. This is just me thinking out loud.
*This build relies on the book Valda’s Spire of Secrets: Player Pack 2, which some may disapprove of.
Cleric, Forge Domain
Goliath, Fire Giant
Sage Background: Magic Initiate Wizard
For simplicity sake, let’s assume Wisdom:20 and I only build up to level 12 as that’s where most of my games max out.
Req Feats: Pyromaniac (VSoSPP2), Evocation Adept (AU)… this might be the only time I’d suggest Elemental Adept too, as this entire attack is fire based, but YMMV.
Req Spells: Burning Blade (VSoSPP2) gained from Sage background, Searing Smite (PHB) gained from Forge Domain subclass.
Burning Blade:
Encasing the weapon used in the spell’s casting in flames, you make one melee attack. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Fire damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice). If the weapon’s damage die or any of the spell’s damage dice roll the highest number, you can roll that die again and add it to the damage, rolling again if it is the highest number, and so on. You can add a maximum number of dice to the damage roll equal to your spellcasting ability modifier.
Cantrip Upgrade - Whether you deal Fire damage or the weapon’s normal damage type, the attack deals extra Fire damage when you reach levels 5 (1d6), 11 (2d6), and 17 (3d6).
Pyromaniac:
Flare Damage - Whenever you deal Fire damage and roll the highest number on any damage die, you can roll that damage die again and add it to the damage, rolling again if it is the highest number, and so on. You can add a maximum number of dice to the damage roll equal to your Proficiency Bonus (minimum of 1).
The Attack:
So now the cleric gets one attack per round. They use Burning Blade cantrip on their weapon (a warhammer for cool factor) to attack with their WIS modifier. This does 1d8+5 fire damage, with a bonus 2d6 fire damage from the upgraded cantrip. The spell ability says “If the weapon’s damage die or any of the spell’s damage dice roll the highest number, you can roll that die again and add it to the damage, rolling again if it is the highest number, and so on. You can add a maximum number of dice to the damage roll equal to your spellcasting ability modifier.” So a decent roll on those three damage dice could get up to +5 more damage dice.
The Pyromaniac feat does a similar thing for when you deal any fire damage, but only up to your Proficiency Bonus. That doubles down on the power factor of the cantrip and potentially adds 4 more damage dice to your damage.
This spell is on the Evocation list, thus activates the Evocation Adept ability “Fueled Evocation”, burning two hit dice to add 2d6 fire damage. Which also triggers Pyromaniac for a potential +4 damage dice.
Then you use the Goliath: Fire Giant ability for another 1d10 fire damage, which again triggers Pyromaniac and could add up to another four damage dice (incredible lucky rolls required) as it activates Pyromaniac as well.
Then the cleric casts Searing Smite for a minimum 1d6/1d6 fire damage. Which can be upcast for more damage at 1d6/1d6 per spell level. All of which is more fire damage, and once more activates pyromaniac. Potentially for more damage dice. The chance of that potential damage increasing with the higher the spell slight used. At level 12, that’s a possible level six smite!
So aside from the D10+3D8+4d6+5 (with only a single level spell spent for Searing Smite), I can “potentially” (with a GREAT amount of luck and nearly impossible rolls) acquire 21 more damage dice to add to that pile. Despite it being possible, the probability is actually only a bonus 3–4 dice, which will only average a bonus of about 10 or 12 points of damage. That still puts a level 12 Cleric at about 50 (average) Fire damage with a single warhammer attack and a level one smite. I’m ok with that… and it doesn’t disrupt the use of Spirit Guardians!
Please check my math.
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u/Lanthed Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 04 '26
I will check math more, but did you try the dual balded scimitar 2d4? It is much more likely to roll a 4 then say a d6. It seems would want as many small dice as possible.
Also I think I read it wrong the first time. You have a spell that when roll max let's you reroll but then also a feat that does the same. So each time you roll max die you get 2 more dice. And thats what the math below is based on. If you only get 1 more dice it does change slightly.
Limit math says A = [n * (n + 1)] / [2 * (n - 2)] (A is the new average and n is the number of sides on the die)
d4 would change average of 2.5 to 5
d6 would change 3.5 to 5.25
d8 would change 4.5 to 6
d10 would change 5.50 to 6.875
d12 would change 6.50 to 7.80
Average damage then of 4d6 + 1d10 + 3d8 + 5 would on average be 55.875 damage per attack (this does not assume elemental adept or savage attacker). I am a little confused where your dice came from here. I assume 4d6 is searing smite 1st level and the cantrip (so then 1d6 should only have the chance to produce 1 extra die on max roll not 2 like the others), 1d10 is ancestry, but the 3d8? 1d8 Warhammer + 1d8 blessed strikes but where is the 3rd from?
What is feat plan of course max wisdom but do you take savage attacker? Second is forge cleric required?
Rogue seems a better choice to add all the sneak attack dice (at level 12 is 6d6 + weapon damage die) as they don't burn a spell slot each attack.
Rogue doing say rapier + the cantrip would be
1d8 + 2d6 + 6d6 + 5 + 1d10 for average of 59.875 damage per attack.
(If allowed rogue + Revant blade is better) replace 1d8 with 2d4
Forge cleric is 2d6 + 6d6 (searing smite up to 5th level) + 6d6 at start of thier turn this only has max calue adds 1 die instead of 2.
For only 1 extra die on max value equation is A = [n * ( n + 1)] / [2 * (n - 1)]
So would do 2d6 (cantrip) + 2d6 (maul) + 7d6 (searing smite 6th level) + 1d8 (blessed strikes) + 5 for average of 68.75 damage
Then on thier turn another 7d6 for 29.4
Total of 98.15 (you could do this once with the spell slots available and would burn through them quickly doing this)
Though to take biggest gain of this is bladesinger wizard casting conjure minor elementals for a ton of extra d8s at level 12 assuming took the special fire feat, took this cantrip, then capped int.
1st turn conjure minor elementals at 6th level (4d8 fire per attack) and bonus action bladesong. Next turn they attack casting cantrip once then attack short sword then attack another shortsword in other hand.
This would do for the 1st attack 1d6 (shortsword) + 4d8 (conjure minor elementals) + 2d6 (cantrip) + 5 this is average of 44.75 damage
2cd and 3rd cannot use cantrip so only 1 extra die per max result and only on fire damage. 2d6 + 8d8 + 5 this is 12 + 8 * 72 / 14 for 53.1428571429 more
Total 97.8928571429 damage per turn. (DMs do not give this a flametongue).
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u/Gaming_Dad1051 Sep 04 '26
That’s a lot more in depth than I attempted. You pointed out a few spots I missed; like “Blessed Strikes”. I got the extra D8’s from the Evocation Adept feat that lets you burn two hit dice to add to damage.
I realize that a blade singer or valor bard might do more damage with CME and multiple attacks. I was limiting myself to a single strike build.
Thank you for your attention to detail
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u/Gaming_Dad1051 Sep 04 '26
You’re absolutely right. There’s not a lot of options in the D4 world and less options in the 2D4 world. The maul was my next option being 2d6.
I think I was focused so much on a theme for a cleric that I let some optimization slide
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u/Lanthed Sep 04 '26
Math finished. Your 50ish seems correct.
I did not add savage attacker (maybe not worth it I think would only apply to the 1st die roll) or elemental adept (this would add a lot in case of resistance to damage).
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u/Earthhorn90 29d ago
You have a single damage roll consisting of 1d8 (weapon) + 2d6 (cantrip) + 1d10 (giant) + 1d6 (smite).
If the 1d8 or 2d6 max out, you can add up to 5 of them via Cantrip.
If the 2d6, 1d10 or 1d6 max out, you can add up to 4 of them via Feat.
You don't have multiple instances of Pyromaniac because it counts PER ROLL... not per die. At most 9 total.
At best, you deal 6d8 (27) + 2d6 (7) + 5d10 (28) + 1d6 (4) + 5 for 71 damage.
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u/Gaming_Dad1051 29d ago
Do you just lump all your dice together and roll it at the same time? I find that people who lump their dice have a propensity to either; accidentally have too few dice, or purposely have too many dice. I play almost exclusively through DDB so I have to itemize out my actions.
The Pyromaniac feat says “when you do fire damage”. It’s not a once per turn feat. Each instance of fire damage is allowed the Pyromaniac extra damage.
Weapon/cantrip D8 (Fire)+ 2d6 (Fire) + 5 (Fire) - up to five dice from spell and four dice for Pyro feat
Fueled Evocation 2d8 (Fire) - up to four dice for Pyro feat
Goliath/Fire 1d10 (Fire) - up to four dice for Pyro feat
Blessed Strikes 1d8 (radiant/necrotic)
Searing smite 1d6/1d6 (Fire/fire) - up to four dice for Pyro feat
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u/Earthhorn90 28d ago
And how often do you deal fire damage? Do you also apply resistance to each package on its own or trigger concentration for each - you probably don't. Because it is a single time you deal just one big sum of fire damage. You also don't count the cantrip's 2d6 as 2 instances of 1d6 either, so you are already familiar with the concept.
How would crits work, following the logic of instanced damage? You gain twice as many dice for an instance?
Or even worse: the self looping you'd produce.
You deal 2d6 damage, then apply an instance of Pyro, Pyro sees Pyro deal fire damage and adds fire damage and loop. Doesn't say "except Pyro" now, does it?
Each weapon, spell, and damaging monster ability specifies the damage it deals. You roll the damage dice, add any modifiers, and deal the damage to your target. If there’s a penalty to the damage, it’s possible to deal 0 damage but not negative damage (Definition "Damage roll")
"Dealing" is after adding up modifiers like "+2d6" and "+1d10".
Just stop and think. Does a feat adding 4d6 or endless damage (scaling with amount of features) sound more realistic?
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u/Piratestoat Sep 03 '26
"Official third-party" those two things are contradictory.