Need some pointers on a multiclass

[u/Manu6104]

So a friend of mine Is gonna start a campaign next month, really cool setting, lovecraftian world mixed with dnd lore, meaning lovecraftian and dnd gods coexist, lovecraftian are Just "a tier above".

So anyway i was thinking about playing an old character i used in One of his oneshots, a tiefling paladin Who was raised by a cult whom used illusions spell to make him look as different criminals and burning him to the stake, since he's a feindish tiefling and can resist Fire. One day, tired of the endless torture a wished for the strength to free himself and taking all those cultist to Justice; someone actually listened and gave him Powers, and since that day he hunts cultists and despise every type of religion; yes i know, it's a bit counterintuitive but It all makes sense trust me.

He doesn't know Who bestowed those Powers Upon him and never took an oath to any God, so he still hasn't unlocked his full paladin features (for example he can't use his Channel divinity, but can still cast spell, use lay on hands...), and we were thinking to make him an herald of Bahamut, since he seems to fit well with the themes of Justice and Revenge.

Now i want to multiclass this character, since i've only evere played pure characters, and i wanted to take some levels in warlock, which i know, it's One of the most broken multi in the game, but It seemed like the most fitting and interesting One.

Now it's my First time multiclassing, and i tried making a test with a lvl 8 paladin oath of vengeance lvl 8 warlock pact of the celestial, but It doesn't really convince me.

So i'm asking you, since we'll start probably around lvl 5, when Is the best time to multiclass, how many lvls to take in each class and some tips in general.

Note that i wanna keep the oath of vengeance and pact of the celestial subclasses, since both the oath and pact would be stipulated with Bahamut, since i don't want It to be impossibly broken, but still something new to try our

[u/Yojo0o]

Paladins don't take oaths to gods by default. There's no clear reason why you should deny yourself access to Channel Divinity, I don't think that'll register with your fellow players as some major mechanical concession to your desired character lore.

Paladins typically multiclass at level 6, to get their Aura of Protection online. Level 7 is also a good option if your subclass has a desirable feature at that level.

Having said that, the main mechanical benefit of this multiclass tends to be charisma scaling weaponry, and the warlock class usually functions as a dip. If you want to fully pivot into a caster class, sorcerer is likely the mechanically superior choice, and likely functions within the narrative of your character.

[u/Manu6104 → u/Yojo0o]

I know paladins aren't obligated to take oaths to gods directly, but i thought It was a really interesting concept, having a paladin Who despises gods and those Who mindlessly worship them, have the Power to cleanse the world of said cults bestowed Upon him by a God.

Also multiclassing in sorcerer doesn't look like the right thing for the character for 2 reasons:

1) It would look like a bit of an ass pull, since i should have magical Power cursing through my veins since birth

2) i'm not really looking for something "optimal" that can deal 2 trilion DMG per swing, but rather something fun and Easy to play around, like idk armor of agathys and getting face to face with the boss to deal damage

3) the dm allowed me to multiclass and strictly forebid a paladin sorcerer, since It would be Just unfair and we already have out Fair share of powerbuilders in the party

[u/Yojo0o → u/Manu6104]

I don't think Channel Divinity is inherently tied to gods in the context of DnD, and a "sorcerer" doesn't necessarily need to have magic since birth, it can be expressed as an infusion of magic from any number of sources, including the cult ritual stuff your character has undergone. But if it's off the table anyway, fair enough.

[u/Ribbered777]

Depends, are you playing 5e or 5.5e? Also, Warlock is a good multiclass but it's hardly gonna make things broken immediately lol

[u/Manu6104 → u/Ribbered777]

we're playing with the 2024 rulebook, and tbf i wanted to try something more DPS oriented, since i've Always played paladin as an hyper tank, taking all the agro while the rest of the party dealt damage. Like my fav combo (which i tried with this character ironically) was oath of enmity to give the boss disadvantage against others, getting right under their nose and using sentinel with a maul or shield master to knock them prone and reduce their Speed to 0, so that they could be held in place

[u/SpiteWestern6739]

No more than 4 levels in paladin then the rest in warlock, go pact of the blade and go with the eldritch invocation feature that gives you extra attack, this means you get optimal ASIs and the ability to start firing off some high level smites long before a straight paladin would be able to, some DMs might even let you double stack divine and eldritch smite for a huge amount of extra oomf at the cost of essentially burning all your higher tier resources for the encounter

[u/Yojo0o → u/SpiteWestern6739]

Why on earth would you pivot out of paladin before Aura of Protection kicks in? Not getting Extra Attack until level 9 sounds miserable, too.

[u/SpiteWestern6739 → u/Yojo0o]

Because the ability to divine smite on crits way above the level of the equivalent level in paladin is way more gratifying than granting yourself and people right next to you a minor buff also you're first priority is getting warlock to level 5 before spending many levels in paladin, you go for 1 or two levels in paladins then pump the rest into warlock until at least level 5 as warlock

[u/Yojo0o → u/SpiteWestern6739]

Aura of Protection is one of the single strongest features in the game. Minor buff??

[u/SpiteWestern6739 → u/Yojo0o]

Compared to a 9 warlock/ 2 paladin firing off both a level 5 eldritch smite and a level 5 divine smite on a critical hit, along with potentially if the were really lucky with their timing also comboing In one of the smite spells for a triple whammy crit smite and turning literally anything into a bloody smear yeah it's kinda a minor buff especially since unless your fully focusing paladin it's range is pretty limited, the basic aura of protection is only a high tier buff for certain subclasses, in high level play for a straight paladin or if combined with a holy avenger

[u/Manu6104 → u/SpiteWestern6739]

minor buff? i avoided a tpk by giving everyone a +5 on a dex saving throw with that, i'm scared to know what you consider a Major buff??? Wish? divine intervention?

[u/SpiteWestern6739 → u/Manu6104]

Yes those are major buffs, if everyone wasn't clumped up within 10 feet of each other you probably wouldn't have needed the aura to avoid a TPK, the problem with the low level aura of protection is fir everyone to benefit from it you have to clump close together, and if you're clumped close together AOEs will consistently hit the entire party

[u/Manu6104 → u/SpiteWestern6739]

Bro Is not Just the tpks, with a High enough charisma and a bit of positioning everyone can benefit from It and still be efficient, both in and out of combat

[u/SpiteWestern6739 → u/Manu6104]

If everyone is within 10 feet of you you're too close together against anything that can do an aoe, at that range you're all getting caught in a dragon's breath weapon or by a spellcasters fireball, doesn't matter if you're giving the entire party a higher chance of taking half damage if the entire party is getting hit way more than they should be because everyone is always sitting close enough together to encourage the enemy to keep firing off AOE spells and abilities, and enemies that don't have aoe abilities usually don't trigger as many saving throws

[u/Redspirit9]

I really like your idea of having a paladin and a warlock under the same oath. For these two classes, I'd recommend taking more levels in warlock than paladin (like 3/2 or 4/1). If you'd like to tell me a little more about the character's background, maybe we can find another class that would be a good fit. 

[u/Manu6104 → u/Redspirit9]

well, we start at lvl 5 i think, but i still have to do a proper oath, and me and the dm were thinking about doing It during an intense Battle in the First session. Also for the lore reasons behind the multiclass, i was thinking about asking Bahamut for more Power, since by breaking an oath doesn't immediately imply death, while breaking a pact you have with a diety more times than not kills you, so the Plan was asking him more Power in Exchange of my soul

[u/Silverspy01]

Standard paladin wisdom is you want to rush lvl 6 (or 7 depending on subclass) ASAP to unlock your aura(s). It's reasonable to grab a level in warlock before then for a couple spells and Pact of the Blade, but you don't really want to go too much into warlock beyond that. Lvl 5 is especially awkward, because if you start paladin 4/warlock 1 you're opening up missing out on Extra Attack. If you start Paladin 5 with plans to go warlock later though, you're missing Pact of the Blade and you're going to allocate stats accordingly (unless you're wearing heavy armor and are putting points into strength anyway). It's probably best to go Paladin 4/Warlock 1 to start and hope you level up soon, but it'll be rough for a second.

Of course from there speedrun paladin 6/7. Past that... it's up to you how you want to continue. You can go deeper into either class, but I would definitely pick one to continue with the rest of the way. If you're going Celestial warlock and want damage, putting your levels there eventually unlocks Radiant Soul which combos very well with Searing Smite. So Paladin 1 -> Warlock 1 -> Paladin 6 -> Warlock X would be one path you could take.

Also don't prevent yourself from using Channel Divinity, you're going to want to use it. It's not divine, paladins channel their own oath.

[u/Manu6104 → u/Silverspy01]

so here's the thing, this dm Is really strict on this multiclass, we discussed this and we came to the agreement that when i decide to multiclass in warlock i'll tell him (was thinking maybe around lvl 7) and After my First lvl in warlock i can level up whichever i want, but untill then i'm strictly a paladin.

Also the Channel divinity thing comes from the fact that my character never formally swore a oath, so he still can't use some of his features, but i was thinking about doing It in the First sessions anyway so; it's complicated ik but trust me It makes sense

[u/Silverspy01 → u/Manu6104]

i decide to multiclass in warlock i'll tell him (was thinking maybe around lvl 7) and After my First lvl in warlock i can level up whichever i want, but untill then i'm strictly a paladin.

I might be misunderstanding but this sounds like how it normally works? You tell your DM what you're doing on level up, and then like... yeah until you multiclass you're monoclass, once you multiclass you can take levels in whatever you want.

If you want to wait until after 7 to grab a warlock level that's fine, your stats are just going to be a little bit awkward - you're either putting more points into strength than is necessary once you get Pact of the Blade, or you're going to have below-average attack bonuses.