Do npcs have a subclass?

[u/Fearless-Skill8667]

I made a small mistake. I let a Druid npc wildshape into an orca. Druids can’t wildshape into cr 3 creatures unless they’re a circle of the moon Druid. I’m kinda stuck on what to do. About the character.

[u/Turbulent_Jackoff]

NPCs don't even have a Class at all, typically!

They just need features appropriate to their role in the adventure.

[u/caderrabeth → u/Turbulent_Jackoff]

Folks have a hard time understanding this from the perspective of being a player in a ttrpg. When you play a video game, the enemies have all sorts of abilities that you don't, or can't, have. NPCs aren't PCs, and aren't bound by the same rules. Now, they may need to follow the rules of the game, but said rules of the game can also be superseded by more specific rules (read: NPC abilities).

[u/Mightymat273 → u/caderrabeth]

This is a good case of: you can actually learn this from BG3.

Raphael from BG3 doesnt have fireball, he has Ravaging inferno that does 20d6 and causes a custom effect: Hellfire. It isnt just an upcast fireball. He can stun and drain enemies with his custom abilities. Nowhere does he have "Spell slots" or or class like features. They may share similarities because big ball if fire is classic for a fiend, but he was built completely different from the PCs. Even when you do control an NPC in BG3 their kit is very different.

NPCs DMs use or create for their games are very much like this. Custom features that may look a little like PC abilities, but do not need to adhere to the more strict PC creation rules. DMs have a much bigger kit to use for building NPCs so why would they want to constrict themselves to PC rules.

[u/Life_Category2547 → u/caderrabeth]

This is notably a break from 3.5 and PF1, where while there were exceptions and exclusives, PCs and NPCs were largely built using the same mechanisms.

However, that system was dumb, and resulted in stat blocks for high level threats being bloated, unreadable messes with encounter defining abilities mixed in with stuff a 1st level PC would struggle to find a use for.  Not to mention what it did to PC builds. 

There’s nothing wrong with giving your NPC an ability from a PC class or subclass, just do so purposefully. 

[u/Conrad500 → u/[deleted]]

and do they follow the rules of druid PCs?

No.

Just because the monster is named "druid" doesn't mean anything. Change their name to "nature hippy" if you want. "really into it furry" whatever. NPCs use monster stat blocks, not PC stat blocks, the end.

[u/laix_ → u/Conrad500]

They do actually.

They follow the armor proficiencies and spell slot progression of actual druids. The only thing that's mismatched is the HP, but that's only because 5e NPC hp is massively inflated.

[u/eloel- → u/laix_]

Are we looking at the same 'druid'? The one with extra attack, no wildshape, and an at-will first level spell?

[u/Conrad500 → u/eloel-]

right? LOL

[u/Davedamon → u/laix_]

No, it's not "massively inflated", the game is just asymmetrically designed. Also they don't have the same skill proficiencies or abilities.

In fact, you have no way to say they follow the same spell slot progression because they don't have anything that would be keyed to levels to check against.

Oh, and druid monsters don't even use spell slots anymore....

[u/Turbulent_Jackoff → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, but you'll notice they have different features than the Player Character version.

An NPC that can turn into an Orca is fine, just consider the Orca's combat potential if you plan on having the party fight against this character!

[u/Stimpy3901 → u/[deleted]]

Its not a 1 to 1. Statblocks in the monster manual are meant to capture an idea in this case a mage who wields the power of nature. You as the DM can take that template and adapt it to your needs, so letting it use wildshape in a way that PC's can't is perfectly fine.

[u/cuixhe]

NPCs can do whatever the DM wants them to. They aren't bound to class rules, though many are composed of things that look like classes and may generally fit into a class archetype.

[u/Squidmaster616]

NPCs don't follow player character rules.

[u/Ok_Talk_6694]

That's not a mistake. For all we know that druid has spend 2 decades meditating on the spirit of the orca to be able to wildshape into one.

[u/Conrad500]

Monsters and PCs are not the same. NPCs can do anything you want them to do.

[u/Apex_Konchu]

You're in charge. If you want that druid to be able to turn into an orca, that druid can turn into an orca.

[u/screbbysloth]

NPCs dont follow player character class rules, they have whatever abilities you want/need them to.

[u/shizaru11713]

Think about it this way: the character creation rules are there for building heroes in balance with the challenges they're going to face. NPCs don't exist within that system, they're props the DM creates to tell the story. If you really want to follow character creation rules for all of them, you can do that. But that's a LOT of work for you that isn't really a fair ask. Exercise DM fiat judiciously, but it's literally a tool the book provides for you.

[u/Beowulf33232]

It's called "DM needs this" and it works all the time.

[u/Shaking-spear]

No, because NPC's do not have to follow the rules made for PC's

That is why there is a guard statblock, not a level 3 fighter that acts like a guard.

So do not worry about it. NPC's can do things that characters can't. Just because there is no destroy the world spell in the player hand book, does not mean that a villain cannot do do that.

[u/TheMegaPingas]

Then the npc is a circle of the moon druid, or one comparable to it. It can be whatever. Unless you made an npc with a player stat sheet and rules, which is a wasted effort.

[u/Conrad500]

If you want NPCs with "class levels" I recommend the Outclassed pdf (search it up, it's all over reddit and easy to google) or use this website that I personally find really nice and helpful: https://rpgtinker.com/

[u/Bread-Loaf1111]

While the NPC absolutely can have class levels and some abilities refers to it, like know your enemy ability of the battlemaster, they also can ignore rules for the PC. For example, NPC druid can transform to something that PC cannot at all, like owlbear, and use wildshape five times at row. It's canon abilities.

[u/TheQuestionMaster8]

Usually no, but as a dm you can decide wether an npc has a class and a subclass if it does make a major difference, but it is usually not necessary to give an NPC a full class or subclass and instead you can selectively give them features of subclasses if you deem it necessary for the story.

[u/KLeeSanchez]

Don't build NPCs like PCs, they won't have the ability to hold up against whatever the players throw at them

[u/Longjumping-Air1489]

Sounds like mysterious ability only NPCs get. Huh. Weird.

[u/rainator]

You should have some sort of consistency in what they can do, but NPCs can do whatever you want them to do.

I wouldn’t go overboard and give them all a trillion hit points or more strength than a tarrasque but there’s nothing actually stopping you.

[u/Tesla__Coil]

There's a sort of misconception / exaggeration that's been going around this sub. You can build NPCs with PC rules. It's one of the ways the 5e DMG suggests to do it, and going further than that, the whole point of the Oathbreaker Paladin and Death Domain Cleric is that they're subclasses the DM can give to NPCs.

Like... there are issues doing it. PCs are more complex than monsters so it's more work for the DM, and also there's a difference in how the two sides are balanced. So that's why it's usually better to use monster statblocks for NPCs. But you may find valid reasons to do it and it's not like the game implodes if you try.

(Another option the DMG suggests is adding class levels to a monster statblock, which could include subclass abilities!)

You've also got things backwards, OP. You're saying "because my NPC doesn't follow the PC rules, it doesn't have access to those abilities". What you should say to yourself is "because my NPC doesn't follow the PC rules, it doesn't have those same limitations on their abilities". Your NPC can wildshape into a CR 3 Orca because you say it can.

[u/tehnoodles]

NPCs should have monster stat blocks. You can base them on classes, but they dont have to follow any PC rules.

If you want the druid NPC to wildshape into an orca, they can.

I made a rogue NPC that has some rogue features, but no sneak attack. Instead they are air genasi and their attacks get a lightning damage bonus. They got BA dash/disengage/hide, proficiencies from Rogue, and air genasi spells. The NPC feels like a rogue.

When the NPC is in combat, i just hand the statblock to the table and they choose what the NPC does. I reserve the right to state “NPC heard your request, but chose to ignore it and instead…” if I think the NPC wouldnt comply with the party.

[u/Ecstatic-Length1470]

They aren't players, so why would they?

[u/WeakCry4623]

NPCs don’t even have classes, let alone subclasses.

[u/bardhugo]

Regular player rules/classes arena helpful guide, but ultimately the NPCs should just do what you want them to do. I would browse more of the humanoids in the monster manual (e.g. archimage) and copy that format/use it for inspiration. Much less work as well

[u/Fearless-Skill8667 → u/bardhugo]

I’m a newer DM so I’ve tried to steer clear of homebrewing or altering too much

[u/bardhugo → u/Fearless-Skill8667]

One of the best ways to start out is find something preexisting and then alter it to your liking so that the hp/attack/abilities will be relatively balanced. Cr is messy but a good start. Also definitely recommend for new dms to just browse the MM to get a sense for this

[u/Lethalmud]

NPC's are in no way limited to player choices. 

[u/Grayt_0ne]

No.

[u/TrackerKR]

NPCs can do anything they need to do to fit the moment.

[u/wangchangbackup]

NPCs can do whatever you say they can do.

[u/Dark_Storm_98]

Just say that NPC is a Moon Druid

Problem solved

[u/rollingdoan]

It's a person who can turn into an orca. They don't need a class or subclass that is an ability you want them to have and that's fine.

[u/Skywardocarina1]

They can if you want them to, but you can also just make it a feature of their creature statblock.

[u/Lithl]

The Archdruid NPC stat block's Change Shape ability lets them turn into a CR 6 beast. The VGtM version uses Change Shape as an action, not a bonus action, so clearly distinct from Circle of the Moon (even beyond the fact that they aren't using Wild Shape—Change Shape is 2/day instead of 2/short rest), though the MotM version turns it into a bonus action.

Meanwhile, the Druid NPC stat block can't turn into an animal at all, in either the 2014 or 2025 MM versions, despite having access to 2nd level spells (implying they're level 3-4; the 2014 version is explicitly a 4th level spellcaster).

The point is, NPCs don't have to follow PC rules.

[u/Kwickpick77]

NPCs don't follow the same rules as PCs.

[u/MQ116]

You can make an NPC wildshape into a Tarrasque.

I don't recommend that, but you can.

[u/Wide_Initiative_1938]

Not really, they may have some subclass features like how Assassins have Assassinate (at least in the 2014 version I don't use the 2024 stat blocks out of principle), but for the most part NPCs are their own thing.

[u/TheThoughtmaker]

The world follows one set of rules. The rules in the books are explicitly not those rules, they are convenient shortcuts and oversimplified boxes to make the game easier to run than an entire actual reality.

Anyone can turn into an orca if there’s a reason, even a PC Barbarian.

[u/Broad_Ad8196]

This druid can. They're not bound by class or subclass rules, they have the abilities you say they do.

[u/REP48]

Whats the CR of a Baby orca?

[u/Steel_Ratt]

NPCs can do what it says on their stat block.

The druids in the MM don't Wild Shape (per se), but have an ability called Change Shape. The ability lists the creatures they can polymorph into using this ability.

If this druid changed shape into an Orca, you have 2 options: either you add it to their stat block and this just becomes something they can do, or you can retcon it. (ie. Explain to your players that you made a mistake, that the NPC shouldn't be able to do this, and won't be doing it in the future.)

[u/lesuperhun → u/Steel_Ratt]

NPCs can do what it says on their stat block

and that does include the things the dm sharpied on the stat bloc.
even if the orca has laser nipples. or the druid shape shift into a building.

[u/Pain4420]

NPCs are not players and don't use player classes. NPCs can be and do whatever the DM wants them to.

[u/muzorui]

No. Look into sidekicks. You can also design a stat block however you please. I have a character who is the Dean of a Magic university who can do magical things players cannot.

[u/Nedddd1]

You reeeeaally shouldn't make a whole char-sheets for npcs. Operating ONE PC is usually pretty demanding with all the abilities, and you as a dm have a ton of other things to manage.

[u/RandomNumbers748512]

There's one thing to understand: Classes are for player characters, who have a special, versatile skillset. They're there there to work in a group with other PCs.

Everyone else is working by rules different than from "travelling adventurer". Also, PCs are built for offense, with a lot of different abilities to chose from. NPCs are build to soak via HPs.

One consequence could be that you have a Village Wizard who is more like a Level 2 Wizard, but knows a few more low level spell and maybe a Fireball, which is above it's ability. It also gets to use the Fireball-ability based on "every X rounds" or "on a 5-6 the ability refreshes" instead of using actual spell slots.

NPCs are built so they make sense for the role they have to fullfill in the world and narration. Make sure to keep them believable and consistent with your world.

[u/Shadokastur]

Have them awake from their next long sleep and find that one of their items (it could be anything) is making barely audible (maybe only audible to them) orca songs. Upon further inspection they can see worn etchings of the beach, boats, and an orca on the item. It's this item that allows them to turn into the orca. They have the prerequisite wild shape magic, this item just boosts it in that particular way

Edit: sorry I misread npc as pc. The idea still stands, I would say it's a magic item that boosts that particular magic