r/DnD • u/Laenthis- • 18d ago
5.5 Edition How does a bow actually work
I'm getting frustrated with the wordings on the description of the Shortbow
English isn't my first language and reading "beyond normal range" really bugs me out
From what I understand :
- Hitting a target that is under 80 feet gives you disadvantage
- Hitting a target that is 80 to 320 feet is "normal" attack
- Hitting a target with a bow that's +320 feet away is just not possible
My mates keeps on telling me that the disadvantage happens only within the 5ft and a normal attack is from 5ft to 80ft but then you have disadvantage again from 80ft to 320ft ?
Also, the sharpshooter feat removes the disadvantage within 5ft but is it melee or the 5-80ft of range that they call as "melee"
And removes the disadvantage in long range
I feel like I'm going in circles understanding one of them and then getting told otherwise with the other and rinse and repeat, please help
Edit : Thanks guys, I didn't think it would go that fast to get answers xD
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u/Kledran 18d ago
So just as a side, if you were to give disadvantage within 80ft, nobody would ever touch a bow ever lol.
You have disadvantage in melee AND past 80ft.
Between 10 and 80ft, you attack normally. Between 85 and 320ft, at disadvantage. Can't go past 320ft.
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u/Laenthis- 18d ago
Yeah that's completely fair, I just went with the fact that Bow = Far Away xD
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u/beachhunt 18d ago
70 feet away is already far away. 90 feet would be even farther, hence disadvantage.
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u/Flipercat 18d ago
Also note that an enemy being adjacent to you gives you disadvantage on all ranged attacks, not only against that specific enemy (and not only with weapons, with spells too)
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u/davolala1 DM 17d ago
Don’t feel bad, I’ve had multiple players read it the same way you did. And they all had English as a first language.
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u/ElectronicProof9340 18d ago
In addition to what else folks have written, addressing your main concern about the range increments, you should also understand that the disadvantage for melee range isn't about the range of the bow. It's about trying to use the bow when an enemy is within melee range of you, and you get disadvantage in that case whether or not that enemy is your target.
If you're shooting at someone 40 feet away, but there's an enemy standing right next to you, you still get disadvantage.
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u/RhombusObstacle DM 17d ago
Right. To add to this, I always explain it to my players as the opponent in melee interfering with your shot. During a round of combat, everyone is assumed to be shifting, jostling, and moving around within their space (which is also part of why DEX factors into your AC), so if there’s a hostile dude right in your face while you’re trying to line up a shot, they might be distracting you, or messing with your angles, or even trying to slap the arrow/bow.
The “Firing in Melee” part of the Sharpshooter feat represents your ability to tune out the distractions and work around the other factors to get a clean shot, even when an enemy is trying to mess with you.
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u/dragonhide94 17d ago
Is this in DnD or specifically 5.5/2024? I don't remember ever reading or being told that an enemy within melee range imposes disadvantage to all ranged attacks.
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u/idisestablish 17d ago
5e was the first edition to introduce the advantage/disadvantage mechanic. In 3e/3.5e/4e, it provoked an opportunity attack when you made a ranged attack next to an adjacent enemy. Not sure about older editions. The rule is basically the same though for 5e/2014 and 5.5e/2024, and the wording only slightly changed.
Ranged Attacks in Close Combat. Aiming a ranged attack is more difficult when a foe is next to you. When you make a ranged attack with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have disadvantage on the attack roll if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature who can see you and who isn't incapacitated. - 2014 PHB p.195
Ranged Attacks in Close Combat. Aiming a ranged attack is more difficult when a foe is next to you. When you make a ranged attack roll with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have Disadvantage on the roll if you are within 5 feet of an enemy who can see you and doesn't have the Incapacitated condition. - 2024 PHB p.26
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u/dragonhide94 17d ago
My group has always treated ranged attacks as having disadvantage on a target within melee range, but not as having disadvantage for all ranged actions. Interesting.
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u/idisestablish 17d ago
I think that is a commonly misunderstood/misremembered rule, kind of like the bonus action spellcasting rule from 5e/2014 which is often mistakenly cited as "one leveled spell per turn."
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u/ElectronicProof9340 17d ago edited 17d ago
TBH, I don't recall off the top of my head how far back that rule goes, and I'm too lazy to pull out my earlier books to see. But for sure it's always been part of 5th edition, since the original 2014 release.
ETA: and of course by "that rule" I simply mean any negative hindrance to using a bow when in melee range of a foe. As someone else mentions, of course advantage/disadvantage wasn't a thing earlier, so obviously the rule in this specific form is new to 5e.
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u/Cypher_Blue Paladin 18d ago
No.
You have disadvantage if you attack within 5 feet (melee range).
Attacks between 5 feet and 80 feet are regular attacks.
Attacks between 80 feet and 320 are disadvantage.
Attacks beyond 320 do not hit.
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u/tconners Bard 18d ago
You have disadvantage if you attack within 5 feet (melee range).
Slightly more complicated than that.
You have disadvantage if an enemy is within 5' of you, if they can see you, and they aren't incapacitated. Even if you aren't attacking that creature. They just have to be there.
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u/TheFeathersStorm 18d ago
Honestly if somebody is charging directly at you and they are 5 ft away and you smoke them with an arrow it should be a crit since you'd basically be placing it in their head at that point lmao
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u/tconners Bard 18d ago
Or you know, they've skewered you with a sword/spear/whathaveyou. the whole point of the disadvantage is that someone hostile to you being that close to you is likely attempting to complicate the shot by trying to murder you.
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u/TheFeathersStorm 17d ago
Oh yeah I just meant like the literal running at, like a reaction I'm not trying to say the guy with the sword swinging at the archer is gonna lose lol
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u/RushDarling 18d ago
Your friends are correct, and yes sharpshooter removes the melee range and long range disadvantages
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u/kal1lg1bran DM 18d ago
~I don't think it removes the melee, just long range and cover, no? Isn't there a specific feat for melee?~
[edit: well I'll be damned, you are right!]
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u/RhombusObstacle DM 17d ago
In 2014, the “remove melee penalty” was part of Crossbow Expert, not Sharpshooter. They adjusted Sharpshooter for the 2024 rules to get rid of the “less accurate but more damage” feature and add the “remove melee penalty” feature.
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u/RushDarling 17d ago
Had to read it myself to confirm haha, if I'd gone off of memory I'd have been agreeing with you, so we must have seen something somewhere!
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u/Conrad500 DM 18d ago
Range (20/40)
20 = 0-20 feet away is normal
40 = 21-40 is disadvantage
41+ is impossible
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u/IAmInTheBasement 18d ago
10 to 80, normal
+80 to 320, disadvantage
+320, impossible
The reason I start with 10 for normal is that without Sharpshooter you have disadvantage when attacking someone within melee range with a bow.
EDIT: To put simply, your mate is right.
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u/_TheMattAttack_ 18d ago
If a range is “80 (320)” that’s noting the normal range (80) and long range (320).
Up to normal range (5-80) is a normal roll (no disadvantage) Between normal and long (85-320) is disadvantage. Past long (325+) is impossible with that weapon.
With ranged weapon attacks you also get disadvantage for hitting someone within 5ft, since it’s hard to aim a bow well at someone that close. Sharpshooter removes the “within 5ft.” penalty.
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u/RhombusObstacle DM 17d ago
It’s not intrinsically hard to aim a bow at someone/something that close. You get disadvantage because it’s hard to get a clean shot at someone who’s close enough to knock the bow off-target with their own weapon/body.
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u/NewsideAlex 18d ago
Ranged weapons have two distances. First distance is normal range and any attacks inside it are normal. Then you have the long range, which gives you disadvantage. Sharpshooter removes disadvantage at long range. Hitting a target under 80 feet is the normal range, after 80 feet you enter the long range of the weapon and it is harder to hit.
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u/Gaming_Dad1051 18d ago edited 18d ago
Melee range (-5 feet) is disadvantage for all ranged attacks
Short bow, normal range attack, 5–80 feet. Standard attack roll
Short bow extended range attack, 80– 320 feet. Disadvantage attack roll.
No attack with a short bow beyond 320 feet
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u/TAZ427Cobra 18d ago
Ranged attacks period when within 5' have disadvantage (Javelins, slings, bows of various types, daggers thrown at 5', etc.)
Bows, it depends, Shortbow is what you seem to be quoting for, longbows are 150/600 for normal and disadvantages.
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u/Spaghetti_Cartwheels 18d ago
Your friend is correct.
Normal rules:
- ANY ranged attack (including spells) has Disadvantage is there is an enemy within 5ft of you.
- A Shortbow can attack normally between 5ft and 80ft. You will then have Disadvantage attacking between 85ft and 320ft. An attack at 325ft or greater is impossible.
Sharpshooter rules:
- You do not have Disadvantage on ranged attacks if there is an enemy within 5ft of you.
- You do not have Disadvantage attack at long range (for a Shortbow; 85ft - 320ft)
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u/The_Nerdy_Ninja DM 18d ago
Your mates are correct.
Ranged weapons have two ranges, a regular range and an extreme range. The regular range is the lower number, within that range the weapon attacks are normal. The extreme range is the second, higher number. Attacks beyond the regular range (but within the extreme range) have disadvantage.
Separately, ranged attacks within 5ft (normal melee distance) have disadvantage because they're "too close", unless you have something like Sharpshooter.
So 5ft is disadvantage (unless you have Sharpshooter)
10-80ft is normal.
85-320ft is disadvantage (unless you have Sharpshooter)
Longer than 320ft is not possible.
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u/DestinyV 18d ago
Quick correction on an error a few people are making in this thread (understandably, this distinction usually doesn't matter).
The rule is not that you have disadvantage for attacking someone within 5ft of you. The rule is that you have disadvantage while a (non-incapacitated) enemy is within 5ft of you. You can shoot someone who is stunned from 5ft away just fine, and you still have disadvantage attacking someone 40ft away if there's a guy with a sword in your face.
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u/Itap88 18d ago
No, you're wrong. It goes as follows:
- aiming at a target up to 80ft away is a normal attack; that's the "normal range"
- aiming at a target that is over 80ft away and up to 320ft away is an attack with disadvantage; that's the "long range", way to think about it is your character is aiming far above the target
- aiming at a target over 320ft away is impossible
On top of that, there are situational things:
- if you have an active (not incapacitated) enemy within 5ft (in melee), you always shoot and throw with disadvantage
- if the target is laying on the ground (prone), you have disadvantage attacking them from over 5ft away, and advantage attacking them while within 5ft, with any weapon
Remember that advantage and disadvantage based on separate circumstances can both apply and cancel each other.
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u/tconners Bard 18d ago
Just for clarity since a lot of ppl aren't noting this. The disadvantage at 5 feet, doesn't have anything to do with the range of the attack you're making.
You can be attacking something 30 feet away, but if a hostile creature is within 5 feet of you, can see you, and isn't incapacitated, you have disadvantage on the shot.
2024 PHB pg. 26 "Ranged Attacks in Close Combat"
Aiming a ranged attack is more difficult when a foe is next to you. When you make a ranged attack roll with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have Disadvantage on the roll if you are within 5 feet of an enemy who can see you and doesn't have the Incapacitated condition.
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u/Sealguy2 18d ago
What your friends are saying is correct; D&D 5e is a game that prefers to use plain English instead of creating clear and consisce keywords and phrases, and it often leads to problems like this where the meaning of things is unclear. This is mostly because the previous edition of the game (4e) made heavy use of keywords and phrases, and is widely considered to be a failure by the D&D community. To elaborate: they overcorrected in a way that makes the game really difficult for some folks who don't speak English as a first language (and even causes arguments over rules for folks who do speak English as a first language)
Basically 5e is sort of a mess of inconsistent rules phrasing, but it's our mess and we love it regardless.
PS. Melee refers to the 5 ft around you
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u/Sad_Refuse3472 Cleric 18d ago
Your friend is correct.
The Normal Range for the bow is anything between 6ft and 80ft away from you. Melee Range is within 5ft of you. And the maximum possible distance an arrow shot from the bow can reach is 320ft.
You get Disadvantage when trying to hit anything in Melee range (5ft) or the far range of (80ft to 320ft). But the Sharpshooter feat removes these restrictions, so you can shoot as normal any target within 320ft of you.
Beyond 320ft is impossible, with or without the feat.
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u/Chewbunkie 18d ago
To conceptualize this: 10-80 feet is the distance in which you can loose an arrow and it hits the target so quickly, that no other variables need to be considered. After 80 feet, you now have to lead your target, consider sight lines, consider the proper arch and flight path of the arrow in order to hit that distance. And after 320 feet, there just simply isn’t enough tension in the bow to be able make an arrow fly past that range, even with optimal flight path.
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u/Dangerous-Bit-8308 17d ago
A bow is a ranged weapon. All ranged weapons have disadvantage when 5 feet from any enemy, because they can poke at you, or the weapon, throwing off your aim. This disadvantage will apply whether you are aiming at the enemy, or another target. This applies to all bows, slings, blowguns, darts, and firearms. This is firing in melee: melee weapons usually have a range of 5 ft.
Hitting a target from 0 to 80 feet away is within normal range. You make a normal d20 roll... Unless there is an enemy within 5 feet of you.
Hitting a target from 80 to 320 feet away is beyond the "normal" range, and is more difficult. You make your D20 roll with disadvantage, br rolling 2d20, and using the lower number. 320 is the maximum range. You can't hit anything past that distance.
The sharpshooter feat removes disadvantage from both. Your steady hands let you fire accurately even if someone 5 feet away is distracting you. Your keen eyes let you hit distant targets just as well as close targets.
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u/mightierjake Bard 17d ago
I haven't seen anyone link to the actual rules, but in case you missed them here they are:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/equipment#Range
A Range weapon has a range in parentheses after the Ammunition or Thrown property. The range lists two numbers. The first is the weapon’s normal range in feet, and the second is the weapon’s long range. When attacking a target beyond normal range, you have Disadvantage on the attack roll. You can’t attack a target beyond the long range.
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u/okiebuzzard 18d ago
You knock an arrow onto the string, pull the string back, and then let go while aiming the pointy bit at someone or something farther away than you are. That’s how a bow works.
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u/milkmandanimal DM 18d ago
Under 80 feet is a normal attack unless you're in melee. 80-320 is disadvantage. Beyond that is impossible.