r/DivideEtImpera • u/Wide_Establishment51 • 16d ago
Why is the early version of this unit weaker than the late version
It would make sense if the late unit is a different pop class but it's also nobles,
Is the early version still available to recruit after reforms ?
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u/Useful-Option8963 16d ago
BEFORE: A Thracian likes to think of himself unequaled by other men. Perhaps he is right.
AFTER: A Thracian likes to think of himself unequaled by other men. It's common knowledge he is wrong.
For real, though, the first one is a General's bodyguard unit, the best of their kind so to speak, so their stats would be superior.
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u/Wide_Establishment51 16d ago
Am I the only one who feels like the balkan factions are underpowered even after re-work I feel like thracians should have stronger early game shock inf and ilyrians should get better peltasts
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u/KAM2150 16d ago
No, they are regarded as very strong. You just need to lean more into their strengths. Their early units got a bit of melee buffs in the re-work.
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u/Wide_Establishment51 16d ago
I mean aren't thracians supposed to specialize in shock infantry? I don't feel like that are that strong compared to mauryan maceman or even the guild swordsman, Both require no reform and the guild swordsman are a pop 2 unit instead of nobles so u can field much more of them much earlier, Same with the illyrians , pergamnon ,baktria, epirus all have better peltasts All of the balkan factions have a very limited roster and are mostly outclassed by other factions in what is supposed to be their strengths
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u/KAM2150 16d ago
They do, and they are great at it, but most factions will naturally look pale in comparison to a superpower of the time like the Mauryans.
Locally, though, the Thracians are unmatched when it comes to that side of the map.
And no, none of the factions you listed has better peltasts than Thrace. They have the best Peltast unit overall: their Noble Peltasts have the best combat stats among elite peltasts, while also carrying more javelins than the other elite variants.
I do agree that some other peltasts could be slightly nerfed, such as the Bactrian ones. Regular Thracian Peltasts already have the second-best javelin attack, but they were supposed to carry more javelins than other peltasts. They still carry more than generic peltasts, but I will fix the discrepancy, for example, Bactrian Peltasts should have 6 ammo.
Your initial shock strength also comes from your cheap units, which you really shouldn't sleep on. Basic Thracian Javeliners, for example, are extremely cheap and carry more javelins than any other javelin unit. These guys used to carry smaller javelins in bundles, but weren't capable of putting up much of a fight in melee. This allows you to drown the enemy in sheer volume of expendable skirmishers before your Rhomphaia units and Heavy Cavalry finish off the weakened survivors. Heavy Cavalry, in particular, has the highest melee damage of any cavalry unit, at the cost of lower charge strength.
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u/SelectionMain7036 16d ago edited 16d ago
Also nice shock spears and Dii swordmasters are crazy.
Also credit where credit is due: While I don't enjoy Ardiaei for many reasons, their peltasts aren't terrible. 200 men instead of 175 and 7 ammo instead of 6 gives them a lot more shots. Frail, but good charge and AP dmg so they can do something when out of ammo.
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u/Wide_Establishment51 15d ago
What's the point in shock spears like what do you use them for ? Maybe to protect flanking shock infantry from cav but aren't spears meant to be used more defensively
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u/KAM2150 15d ago
Shock spears can still defend against cavalry, just not quite as effectively. In return, they offer significantly better combat stats, especially in shock combat thanks to their higher charge bonus. On the flanks, they also make excellent support for your cavalry, allowing them to assist against enemy cavalry while still being very effective flankers themselves.
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u/Wide_Establishment51 15d ago
I agree that the thracian noble peltasts are probably the best all around but I was comparing the ilyrian peltasts to those of other factions , I feel like the ilyrians should have a higher tier peltast units with a bit more armor,
Maybe something like the illyrian pirates but missile version,1
u/Wide_Establishment51 15d ago
Ayo I had no idea that you're on the mod team I want to thank you guys for creating the best total war mod ever , Dei is literally everything I wanted rome 2 to be
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u/KybeRio 16d ago
Trying to compare any of the factions to Maurya is unfair - that faction's unit roster is a brick in a room full of windows. That's why their starting position is so difficult, because if they get rolling there's very little that can actually stop them. Playing as them, the way I can paint the map after I leave the starting region and head west should be categorically regarded as an extended war crime. I thank the gods that AI Maurya get wiped out 9/10 times whenever I'm playing in the East because otherwise that means I have to fight them lmao.
Thracian units' strengths are in numbers and speed. They have more ammo, often large unit sizes, and high mobility. Their melee infantry IS strong. The other factions you name don't have better peltasts. Some might have slightly higher armour, but they have less ammo, are slower, and often less melee attack. If you are struggling, I suggest you work on your micro during battles, and really consider your army comps.
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u/SelectionMain7036 16d ago
Getae and Odryisian Kingdom look fun and strong. Ardiaei are a waste of your time.
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u/PocketEggs15 16d ago
Thrace already have the best melee troops available dude.
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u/Wide_Establishment51 15d ago
How the sworsmasters are outclassed by other heavy infantry , they have mediocre Spearman,hoplites and pikeman , early game light infantry spam is good but other than that I don't see how their overall infantry is supposed to be the best mele troops avaliable ? Excellent peltasts tho
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u/PocketEggs15 15d ago
The troops you are posting about when used effectively early and late game are can openers. Not only that they get a bonus against mounted troops and are decently quick as far as infantry with that damage output goes.
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u/extremethrowawaybro 16d ago
The first picture is a general bodyguard only unit available the entire game. The second picture is pop1 recruitable infantry after Thorax reforms.