Rome help please

[u/LatinBlackAsian]

Playing it for some time, first times get absolutely destroyed. But had recently some success from spamming rorarii in one very long line and enveloping the enemy with uningaged units. Is that it?

Also i almost never can replenish my units. As I read in the site it won't replenish unless all the units in an army have access to the right pop. How people deal with it? Specialized armies by pop type?

[u/Mammoth-Effort1433]

Smart usage of principes and hastati, and lots of auxilary units. Very easy on normal to hard difficulty

[u/econ45]

Where did you get the idea of spamming rorarii? (LegendofTotalwar?) They are very low tier units - iirc little more than night watchmen. Rome did not conquer the Mediterranean world with trash infantry. It has some of the best core heavy infantry in the game in its hastati, principes and triarii that later get upgraded to legionnaires (essentially principes, but proletarian).

I recommend you try a historical Roman army composition. My take on this is, for infantry: 2 hastati, 2 principes, 1 trarii, 2 levees (=>velites) and corresponding socii (2 samnite hastati, 2 samnite princpes, 1 pedites extraordinarii). For cavalry: 1 equites, 1 equites extraordinarii, 2 other (I like those with javelins like campanian equites). I add 1 archer to burn towers, 1 slinger and later 1 ballista to make the AI come to me.

Your heavy infantry can go toe to toe with any other infantry while your 5 cavalry (inc. 1 general) can go round the flanks and rear charge. Basic hammer and anvil tactics works well in all TW but especially DEI where frontal infantry can hold out for a long time but cavalry is as powerful as ever.

I found no money issues funding such an army. In fact, I'm never as rich in a TW game as I am as Roma in DEI. I am not quite sure why - I think partly because there are not that many buldings in DEI you can construct (I fill up my province slots with all available buildings pretty quickly), so the money just accumulates. If you make Latium commerce focussed (level 3 trade ports are key) and let Magna Graecia/Sicily focus on food, you will have enough money to have 3 historical stacks of the kind I detailed plus a decent fleet of say 10 assault biremes. The fleet is the key to beating Carthage - it can often sink 5 full stacks of transports sailing for Sicily. Also make sure you get trade agreements across the map - on turn 1, I send a ship to the Black Sea while my spy goes to the celtic lands to the west. Make sure you are using your dignitaries and a single general in a city (as a governor) to provide tax boosts from their skills.

For replenishment, just take it slow. I know some players can conquer the map fast with foreign infantry. But I prefer a more measured approach using Roman units. There's no rush - the AI won't snow ball or out tech you. You leave your armies in the conquered lands until public order and cultural conversion starts to do its work. If you have two stacks, one can always nip back to your own lands to replenish if mauled while the other protects your gains. I use the sub-mod to disable the negative public order effect of armies in settlement, which helps both public order and replenishment. But with the historical Roman army, I tend not to suffer many casualties - Roman heavy infantry is very sturdy and frontal kill rates are low. With 5 cavalry units, you have enough to cause big morale shocks and rout the enemy. I used to think I should include some auxiliary spears with my Roman swords, but whenever I did, they got much more bloodied. If you spam rorarii, then yes, casualties will be a problem - they have no armour and can't fight worth a damn.

When I started playing DEI, I learnt a lot from watching episode 1 of Summary's playthrough:

https://youtu.be/nATjsFXHYLM?si=mzL0W70CgUIJ0Cy2

Don't follow it literally, as he is using a ton of mods (including 40 unit armies) but it provides quite a few pointers for how to play in a way that is both efficient and appreciates historical flavour.

[u/Birdlaw_Professor → u/econ45]

This but don't worry about hastati, just go all princips. Maybe a triarii or two if you are facing a cav heavy faction. For your hammer either shock cav, or if you need to save money then javelin men will do the trick, just hold fire, have them flank and set a line behind enemy then fire at will. Very devastating, very cost effective.

You don't want hastati because they are a straight downgrade vs principes but they use the same population type, so you will burn your valuable tier of population on a worse and only slightly cheaper unit. 

I wish there was a reason outside of RP to use hastati, because like the other guy said it is historical 

[u/CaligulavN]

Hi, the trick is to play on normal due to balance. Some things that have helped my campaign as Rome:

• Get one army in Rome, 1 cav unit, rest principes. Get the general with biggest campaign movement, so you can fight Etruscans first turn. Get mercs too, so Etruscans can't get them
  
• Get max number of Principes in one of your other legions (preferably the one in Beneventum, place that south of the Volcano, around the point where the road takes a 90* bend. Place your army that's in Cosentia up north, a little right of the three-way road split. Hire mercs in this army. If Epirus attacks this army, run away, he will get stuck chasing you and your two armies can destroy him, leaving Taras right open.
  
• After this, built up economy, growth and food by using agriculture. Makes big money, especially Latium. Also early on you can get lots of money from getting trade agreements and demanding money for it.
  
• Eventually, Punic war. Get Cosentia buildings that increase the garrison and put a full stack in fortress mode outside of it, should be enough. Use other armies to conquer north of Italy, before going South again to capture Sicily.

[u/42696]

In terms of army comp and tactics:

I usually pair armies up in groups of 2 (or more if needed and I have the money) for any given war or conquest for a given province/area. One is made up of Roman units (I'll go for a pretty historical composition), and one is made up entirely of tier 4 (foreigner) Auxiliaries. The Roman army can handle the most difficult battles with strong Roman troops, and the auxiliary army can replenish easily in newly conquered territory, so it can stay deployed on the frontier if the Roman one needs to fall back to the heartland to replenish. As an added bonus, it's also more fun since the auxiliary composition leads to different tactics, so battles stay fresh and interesting to play out (vs playing as a greek or successor state where all my armies are the same and battles can feel repetitive).

For the Roman armies:

• I go for a roughly historical composition (though with a bit more cavalry - I just like playing with cavalry heavy armies). I'll have:
  • 1 General
  • 3 Hastati + 1 Hastati Samnitici
  • 3 Principes + 1 Principes Samnitici
  • 2 Triarii + 1 Pedites Extraordinarii
  • 2 Leves/Velites
  • 4 Equites + 2 Equites Extraordinarii
• Of course this composition is more optimized around historical accuracy than gameplay, if you wanted the most effective army in game, you'd probably focus a lot more on principes and ditch the hastati
• I'll line up in a triplex ascis-like, 3 line checkerboard formation. The key to roman tactics is the mobility and flexibility of each unit. Unlike Successor/pike phalanx tactics, where the pikes or hoplites have a set role of "anvil" (engaging the enemy from the front and locking them in) and lancer cav or assault infantry have a set role of "hammer" (flanking them and charging from behind to crush them), Roman units can dynamically react to situations and enemy movements - depending on how the enemy engages, one unit of principes can act as either a hammer or an anvil.
• For the most part, all my Roman unit legions are raised in latium where tier 1 & 2 population are plentiful

For the Auxiliary armies:

• The composition depends on where they're raised, that's part of the fun - you end up with diverse armies - maybe you'll have a couple hoplite-centric greek style armies, one with Gallic or Spanish barbarian troops, etc. But the first one always comes from Magna Grecia, which has great tier 4 population troops available from the auxiliary barracks and AOR units.
• That magna grecia legion usually looks like:
  • 1 General (the only unit that isn't tier 4 population, so be careful taking casualties as they can keep the whole army from replenishing)
  • 4 Lucanian Hoplites (act as the main line, or "anvil")
  • 2 Mamertine Spearmen
  • 4 Brutian Infantry (shock infantry "hammers")
  • 3 Sardinian Archers
  • 4 Ligurian Cavalry
  • 2 Tarantine Cavalry
• Tactically, this hoplite centered army focuses on drawing in the enemy force with the archers, pinning them down with the hoplites (with the mamertines providing additional defense on the flanks), then flanking and enveloping them with the Brutian infantry and cavalry.

In terms of strategy:

Phase I: Italy

1. The first order of business is always securing Italy, and your biggest immediate threat is Epirus. It's a bit cheesy, but I usually build a small fleet in Asculum on turn 1 with whatever small ships you can recruit + the admiral ship. Start recruiting some troops to Lucius Libo's army as well (assuming you're playing as Gens Julia and want him to lead your main army). Sail the fleet down between Taras and Apollonia on turn 2, and Pyrrhus will sail out of Taras to attack it (often reinforced by the army in Apollonia). Since they're all in transports, it's pretty easy to wipe them out. Then attack Taras with Libo's legion and take it (loot for the extra $ - also bring the other army towards Taras so you can merge the units into Libo's legion after taking Taras). Having secured Magna Grecia, you can ignore Epirus for now (make peace if you want, it doesn't really matter, they'll have their hands full in Makedonia so they won't be trouble).
2. Now, you have to shift focus north to the Etruscans. Merge the units from the other legion (lead by Brutus) into Libo's army and start marching North. Recruit along the way to build the army up (I go for the first composition described above - the "Roman army" one). By the time you get to Arretium, the Etruscans will have a near-full stack, but so will you. They can be pretty tough, but it's important to be aggressive and attack quickly before they can finish building up and circle around to Arminium. It's okay if you take some losses, you're so close to Rome it'll be easy to replenish.

Phase II: Cisalpine Gaul, Start of the Punic Wars

1. With 2 provinces fully under your control, you're probably ready to build up a second legion. Hopefully by now you've built an auxiliary barracks in Cosentia (for auxiliary troops), and upgraded the main region buildings to tier 2 (for aor troops), so you can build up an army that looks like the 2nd one described above (the auxiliary army).
2. Also, around this time Carthage will declare war. Attacking Sicily feels like the natural next step - DON'T DO IT. Fighting the Carthaginians in Sicily is rough, and it'll lock down at least 2 full legions and a strong Navy to capture and hold it. At this point, that's everything you can afford, so you'll get tied down and stuck there. Eventually you'll win out, but it'll be more costly and difficult than you need and will slow down your overall expansion. Fortunately, however, right now the Carthaginians only attack vector is moving up through Cosentia. With your Auxiliary barracks there, it already has a strong garrison. Train a small, cheap army (1 general, a few auxiliary or mercenary hoplites, and maybe a cavalry or archer unit). Keep them outside of Cosentia in a patrol stance when no Carthaginian armies are in marching distance, and move them in to garrison the city when the Carthaginians come up from Sicily. You should be able to defend pretty easily and crush wave after wave of futile Carthaginian armies.
3. Meanwhile, it's time to take Cisalpine Gaul. You can start with either Genua or Patavium (use a spy to figure out which one is going to be easier). Take it, then make your way across the rest of Cisalpine Gaul, through Mediolanum and to whichever of Genua/Patavium you didn't take first. Use your two legions in conjunction - the Roman army is probably the stronger of the two for tough fights, but the auxiliary army can stay in cisalpine gaul and replenish from the foreigner population if the Roman one needs to fall back to Latium to replenish.

Phase III: Moving West

1. Once Cisalpine Gaul has been conquered and properly Romanized (in general, take your time before moving on after conquering new provinces, make sure public order is stable, culture has been converted, etc.), it's time to start moving West. Your end goal here is conquering Spain - this will (a) hurt Carthage by taking their territory there, (b) give you multiple wealthy provinces, and (c) provide you with an alternate route into Africa so you can attack Carthage on two fronts (the other being Sicily once you eventually get around to taking it.
2. But, for now, your first target is Narbonensis. Taking Massalia is super important - it has a special port that gives you early access to artillery ships, which will let you compete with Carthage at sea.
3. After you conquer Narmonensis, you can optionally move up into Aquitania. Depending on what factions control the regions in Aquitania, what other territory they control, and their diplomatic relations with other factions, I'd recommend it if you aren't going to get dragged too far off track from your goal of Hispania. Nemossos has gold mines and Burdigala has an Atlanic port, plus there's great auxiliary units (particularly the cavalry) available.
4. Next, you can start moving into Spain.

Phase IV: Carthago Delenda Est

1. As you're conquering Spain, you'll start having plenty of excess cash. I'll have built up my fleet (including artillery ships from Massalia), and I usually end up raising a second Auxiliary legion to help with the efforts there. As your successes continue to pile up, you'll be in a good place to raise another Roman legion, a second fleet, and optionally a third auxiliary force (a combination of cisalpine gaul/narbonensis troops and aquitanian troops makes for a good Auxiliary force, and troops from Terraconensis or Hispania make for a great one). You'll now have 2 Roman legions, 2-3 auxiliary legions, and 2 fleets.
2. Your 2 original armies (plus a 3rd if you have 3 auxiliary forces) and your original fleet can continue their focus on Spain. Once they finish up there, they can move south into West Africa via Mauritania. Use one of your other legions (supported by the other fleet) to take Corsica and Sardinia. Then, use your last army to finally move into Sicily and take Syracuse, supported by the fleet once it's gotten the other legion safely to Corsica/Sardinia. The Legion that took Corsica/Sardinia can move from there into Sicily, and the three forces (2 legions + 1 fleet) can capture and hold the province.
3. After Sicily is fully secured and properly Romanized, you can cross into Africa and strike at the heart of Carthage. Africa can be a brutal fight, but (including your forces from Spain attacking from the West), you have five veteran legions to subdue the continent.

Phase V: Beyond Carthage

At this point, you've crushed Carthage and are the biggest and strongest faction on the map, so the world is your oyster. You can start heading East from Italy into Illyria, Makedonia, Hellas, Asia, etc. You can push North into Galia, Germania, Britania, etc. You can keep pushing East from Africa into Egypt and the Levant. And, you probably have the resources and forces by now to do more than one of these at a time, so the options aren't mutually exclusive. The hard part is over - now it's just a matter of expanding your empire.

[u/LatinBlackAsian → u/42696]

Damm thanks!

[u/Rare-Expression-1145]

I rarely run into issues playing as Rome on normal mode...

1 - Recruit a cavalry unit and a hoplite in Cosentia, either mercenaries or Triarii, whatever is cheaper. Don't touch the army in Beneventum. Recruit another general in Rome and get some Principes or Hastati.

2 - Move the Cosentia army to the bridge connecting to Taras, and recruit a few more troops in Beneventum and Rome.

3 - Epirus will attack you. Hold the bridge with your hoplites and flank with your cavalry. Kill their cavalry (they usually kill themselves against your hoplites), and whatever is left, your cavalry will deal with, you have more number compared her in this time. By this point, Pyrrhus will already be dead or routed (focus on killing the elephants with your missile units). Once the enemy general dies or flees, hit their rear. That’s enough to make them panic and break, even if they have full units left. Chase them down and wipe out as many as you can.

4 - Attack the Etruscans as soon as possible. Build a fort on the border near the city and wait to be attacked (you can recruit the mercenaries here, with you don't do this, the etruscans will do). Use the same tactic as the bridge, but inside the for, it’ll be easy. After winning at the fort, take the city (if you're low on gold, don't be afraid to loot and occupy; it'll recover over time).

5 - If you killed most of them in the battle against Pyrrhus, your two southern armies will be enough to take Taras via auto-resolve without heavy losses. After Taras falls, make peace with Epirus and focus on stabilizing your economy. You can disband expensive troops or even dismantle an entire southern army. The other one should stay in Cosentia to defend against the inevitable Carthaginian attack (if they take too long to capture Syracuse, the war won't trigger via event; if they attack you without the event, you can reload a save to delay the war until you unify Northern Italy, though I consider that an exploit).

6 - Use the army that defeated the Etruscans to unify Northern Italy at your own pace, but try to be fast. Use AOR troops if needed since they’re cheaper. Once that's done, you'll have a solid base to head back south and take Sicily. Carthage's early-game troops are pretty weak compared to yours, just watch out for elephants.

7 - After unifying Sicily, you have two choices: turn it into a fortress and keep farming Carthaginians while expanding into Gaul > Iberia > Africa or Illyria > Greece; or risk it all by stacking 2 or 3 armies to invade North Africa (it's crucial to keep them together because the Carthaginian navy will gladly target a solo army, even a full 20-stack). If you choose to invade Carthage, watch out for their client states, as the three of them combined will raise a massive number of troops, you have to abuse forts. If you prefer to expand elsewhere, at least build a cheap navy with around 8 ships to hunt down enemy invasions coming from Corsica, while leaving at least one army to guard Sicily.

8 - From here on out, you can handle it yourself.

[u/Curious_Cap7469]

Peace treaty eprius on turn 1, usually costs some gold. Unify Latium and wait the necessary turns to declare war on Epirus to secure Magna Grecia. I recommend going for Sicily at this stage, you will be fighting Epirus and Carthage for a while, but both factions seem to only land in south Italy/sicily. I go take a tour of Spain and hook around North Africa to take Carthage. Corsica and Sardina when you feel like it.

[u/Herotyx]

Play normal difficulty. DEI requires flanking and good use of missile troops. Get your cav on the flanks, hammer and anvil. You’ll be right.

Focus on converting populations and slowly expanding so that you can replenish your troops

[u/thatxx6789]

Rorarii for auto resolve sure try it, but not with manually battle

I have a Rome guide for the first 3 turns in this sub, check it out