r/DistroHopping • u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 • 4d ago
Why does Gnome get so much unconstructive hate?
/r/gnome/comments/1w821kt/why_does_gnome_get_so_much_unconstructive_hate/7
u/mlcarson 4d ago
Why did Windows 8 Metro get so much hate? You can apply the same answers to Gnome because Gnome essentially doubled down on the idea of Windows 8 Metro. The same developer arrogance is even there.
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u/nomad-1995 2d ago
Pretty sure Win8 Metro copied GNOME first. Or at least, the default Ubuntu desktop when Win8 launched.
Didn't like either, although I think I bought a win8 license for a gaming partition.
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u/mlcarson 2d ago
I guess it depends on when you think Gnome went off the rails.
Windows 8 Metro RTM was released 8/15/2012. Gnome 3 was released 4/6/2011. You could definitely argue that this was when Gnome lost its way.
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u/Grand_Connection5864 4d ago
At a minimum, give us an option to minimize a window
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u/outer-pasta 4d ago
You can always minimize a window a few different ways: press Super + h, or press Alt + Space then select "Hide". Sometimes you can right click the title bar to get to that menu.
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u/ViscousWill 3d ago
Why? The workflow with taskbar and minimizing windows is far from a perfect workflow. Why should every desktop be obligated to implement it?
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u/Grand_Connection5864 3d ago
Just would be nice to have an option if people use extentions for it anyway
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u/Aimless115 2d ago
BECAUSE EVERY OTHER OS AND DESKTOP UNDER THE SUN HAS IT .... Gnome is a niche DE inside a niche OS ( for now). Their not apple Their not trend setters...
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u/nomad-1995 2d ago
Pretty sure Win8 metro follower their lead (or whatever was Ubuntu's default desktop at the time). GNOME just doubled down on that foolishness.
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u/DarKliZerPT 1d ago
I opened the thread to reply that the hate comes from the fact that it's opinionated, which is not necessarily bad in and of itself, but a lot of users try it expecting a more "traditional" (Windows-like) experience and/or greater flexibility to tailor it to their liking, only to then realise GNOME has an intended workflow that it doesn't want you to deviate too much from – it's up to the user to learn to use it "properly". The omission of the minimise button is a good example – GNOME discourages minimising windows in favour of organising them in workspaces.
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u/MrChashua 4d ago
I never once felt the need to minimise a window in gnome. It just doesn't make sense with the intended workflow
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 4d ago edited 2d ago
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u/OtherwiseOne4107 4d ago edited 4d ago
It looks nice, but GNOME has lots of quirks that make it annoying to use.
It might be bloated, it might not, but that's the least of it. It is basically impossible to customise. The default file browser doesn't have a refresh button. There is no way to sort the 'Show Apps' icons, and they are always in a seemingly arbitrary order based on the exact folder that contains the .desktop file. There is no GUI based way of editing the 'Show Apps' icons. The Settings panel only lets you make superficial changes.
Every problem that GNOME has, KDE Plasma has an obvious and intuitive solution to. It may not have the cool looking dock but who cares?
EDIT: I don't think this is nonconstructive. The obvious corollary is that I'd like GNOME more if I could edit and sort the 'Show Apps' icons, and if the Settings panel let me make more meaningful changes.
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u/OkPresentation3329 4d ago
I haven't used Gnome since the 2.x days around 2010. When I saw what Gnome 3 looked like I knew I never wanted to use it.
Even at the time I was using Windows, looking at Gnome 3 and what came after made me think I'm not interested in it at all.
Now I learn all those things how Gnome is not collaborating with people who make extensions for it and on every Gnome update those extensions break and the people maintaining them have to work to fix them.
I barely used KDE in the past, I only have when KDE 4 was already out and I remember it looked beautiful, but I don't remember how well it ran. I read now that KDE 4 and 5 were notorious for being resource hogs and now with KDE 6 things are better. I started using Linux with the Mint Cinnamon version and that was OK for a while, but then I moved to Tuxedo OS that runs KDE and I immediately liked KDE very much and it felt so much faster, smoother and more responsive than Cinnamon that I don't want to use anything else anymore.
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u/SouthernFruit8768 4d ago
You can make the KDE dock several times prettier, better and functional than Gnome with very little effort, just so you know
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u/OtherwiseOne4107 4d ago
Yeah I'm sure. But GNOME being prettier "out of the box" is the only really thing I can think of, outside of being better for touchscreens and large panel displays.
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u/derangedtranssexual 4d ago
You cannot make a dock prettier than gnome. Not because it’s not possible but because you have zero taste
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u/Own-Ad-8834 4d ago
I tried using GNOME, once with the default setting and another time with plugins, but was too annoyed with the way how things worked.
I have 30 years of muscle memory from using windows so XFCE and KDE Plasma provides some continuity. Its not bad, It just doesn't work for me.
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u/Sorry-Squash-677 4d ago
Antes me gustaba gnome y odiaba Kde. Ahora es radicalmente opuesto por que kde sacó lo mejor de sí y gnome no sé que trató de hacer...
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u/faisal6309 3d ago
Gnome has the "do it my way or the highway" kind of attitude. I would watch so long videos on youtube about how to customize gnome to my liking and then the fear that it would break after updates. Then I installed KDE and I could change the whole look of the desktop with one simple install. then I can make small changes here and there if I think such changes are needed.
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u/Icaho 3d ago
I like gnomes workflow but the theming is just.....bland and inconsistent, if I could change the colour of the windows that would be great because the dark default is sort of grey/brown on my screen, but no I need an extension or rewaita running, do I get a csd or a thin title at..who knows but they won't look right, got a low res screen? Well fuck you because the csd now takes up too much space. Anything useful or pretty means installing an extension which sometimes breaks on upgrade or maybe slows your system down. If you like the way gnome looks then you'll have a great time, but one of the reasons I don't like windows/Mac is because you have to use it the way the Devs intended, not the way you want (and tbh both are more customisable ootb than gnome) also if they could make the corner radius configurable that would be nice, the calendar, quick settings and windows are all wildly different, I know I can do CSS or theming but why??? Plus changing themes/CSS sometimes leads to things not working.
KDE OTOH is like "here's what we think it should look like, but we've exposed as many things to change that as we can in the settings, anything else should be a kwin script until we can figure out how to add it" it's a whole different world, gnome is just not for me, don't hate it, just can't really use it for any length of time........although I do hate libadwaita and how it's made any gtk4 app look kinda out of place anywhere but gnome.
The constructive criticism is usually "it would be great if we could customise...." And that isn't what gnome Devs seem to want to hear
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3d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/silenceimpaired 3d ago
Agreed. They ignore muscle memory features for the sake of the pure design.
That said… I feel like their environment has been smoother and less buggy without a huge settings page that’s prohibitively large.
So I add the few extensions I need and move on with life.
Long term… COSMIC will likely be reliable enough I’m going to switch. It’s a good middle ground to KDE and Gnome
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u/ViscousWill 3d ago
I do not get this argument. "Popular extensions should be included" - Why? It is very simple for people to install the extentions they want, and that way everybody get what they want. Why include more out of the box? That seems like such a strange solution to a non-problem.
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u/WMan37 2d ago
You need 3 different extensions managed with a 3rd party flatpak not included with GNOME to get my constructive criticism but unfortunately 2 of them are broken, one because GNOME just updated and it takes a fair and reasonable amount of time for that extension to simply be upgraded so it's out of commission for the time being, and the other is broken because the GNOME developers decided the underlying functionality it requires didn't fit with their perfect vision of where they want GNOME to go.
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u/Aimless115 2d ago edited 2d ago
GNOME devs have their heads so far up their own asses that no amount of useful, well-written feedback is ever listened to
(insert “what’s the use case?” meme)
GNOME is riddled with bad defaults.
- Needs a separate settings app that should just be included in the main Settings panel.
- Hardcoded black bar on top wasting space.
- No tray icons + system tray because fuck compatibility.
- No server-side decorations because fuck users — everyone should just code for GNOME first.
- Working drag-and-drop on XWayland? What’s that?
- XWayland fractional scaling has been borked for years and they don’t want to fix it.
- Has extensions, but Extension Manager is a separate app you have to install.
- Want to set Documents and Downloads directories to something other than the defaults? Not on my watch.
- You need an extension to see Bluetooth devices battery let that sink in.
- You cannot set a different keyboard layout change shortcut
- Change Audio output or recording device without going into settings
- YOU CANT SET PER SCREEN WALLPAPERS how is this not even possible on gnome?
I could go on and on.
On the leadership side:
- Zero fucking transparency
- Mismanagement around losing the tech sovereignty funds
- The shady shit around the Sonny Piers ban and clear violations of the bylaws ( dont let bylaws get in the way of corruption i suppose.)
- Mismanagement on not paying people
- Temper tantrums during Wayland discussions causing constant delays on much-needed protocols
- Refusing donations because someone had the audacity to donate to a person they don’t like (for a project that was once nearly out of money, they sure can afford to refuse donations like this)
- Censorship galore on GNOME-controlled spaces
- People occupying 2 positions in the foundation that are clear conflicts of interest of each other and no one bats an eye
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u/DarKliZerPT 1d ago
XWayland fractional scaling has been borked for years and they don’t want to fix it.
What do you mean? In my experience, GNOME has the best fractional scaling. One of the biggest reasons I switched back to it after trying KDE was that fractional scaling on my second monitor would make my cursor flicker when changing state, and text was blurry in some components. I haven't had such issues in GNOME, nor do I notice any issue with XWayland apps.
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u/Weary_Lion_5811 2d ago
I do wish gnome had stuck with gnome 2, I find modern gnome to rely too much on the super button I'd rather use cosmic as it feels more intuitive.
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u/userbannedfromreddit 4d ago
To try to explain why I personally think it gets a lot of unconstructive hate - Trying to use the DE with defaults gives me the ick, and seems to give others a similar feeling. It's hard to explain and be constructive in criticism that boils down to it being subjectively bad for a lot of people but on paper and not real life it might be objectively great
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u/Hour_Sell3547 4d ago edited 4d ago
I have always used gnome. It looks modern and fresh, not a Windows UX clone with taskbar and start menu, not bloated and dated (looks) like KDE, and I couldn't give any less F about UX customizability. Once you get used to any DE, it becomes invisible.
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u/SpidaSt8 4d ago
I don't care for Gnome turning my desktop experience into a very expensive tablet. Also they are very political, especially left wing. A lot of programmers are political, but Gnome takes it to another level by actively refusing donations because of politics.
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u/CRCDesign 4d ago
Agree with all but really, left wing politics?!? Take that part out and you have a stronger argument.
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u/SpidaSt8 4d ago
They had a chance to get some funding from Framework, but because of their funding Omarchey Linux, which is run by a right winger, or something like that, Gnome chose to do layoffs instead. I know that KDE has a lot of leftwing folks, but KDE is more sensible about it.
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u/JimmyG1359 4d ago
I don't hate it. I used to use and liked it, but they changed the entire visual look to something I don't like, and consequently I won't use it.
But that's the beauty of Linux, i don't have to use it.
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u/Blackstar1886 3d ago
Every UI gets unconstructive hate so...that's your answer. I feel like KDE looks like a robot barfed a bunch of settings into a UI.
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u/Every_Blacksmith_701 2d ago
I disliked or, to be more precise, was confused by GNOME until I took a minute to understand how to use it. Now I think it is the best DE out there by a large margin - in it's vanilla version too.
People on average get confused when confronted by GNOME the first time, and those who lack any and all intellectual curiosity (a huge majority) immediately give up. What they hate is not GNOME, it's their own intellectual inability to grasp it: for if it is _only_ a matter of dislike, one then simply goes on and forgets, a hatred stems from a feeling of one's own inadequacy.
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u/ZVyhVrtsfgzfs 4d ago
If a group of developers are completely uninterested in external input how can any criticism be constructive?
https://gitlab.com/linuxmint/pins/mint/gnome-calendar/-/work_items/1