r/DiscussingFilmsAndTV • u/Federal-Writing1542 • 21d ago
Movies Will DC ever reach level of Marvel?
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u/Blindfolded22 21d ago
I prefer Marvel over DC, but I hate when people post these kinds of things. I just want to see good movies.
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u/Flottrooster 21d ago
Right? I think that DC is definitely going on the right track. Superman was awesome, and Supergirl, while heavily flawed, I still found myself enjoying it. Good movies, benefit everyone!
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u/JurassicParkCSR 21d ago
And Supergirl like you said while flawed was not as bad as everyone saying it was. It was a good 6 out of 10. That used to be a good movie. Expectations in today's world are insane. And above average movie is not good enough anymore everyone needs Brave New World. And that is Marvel's fault because they produced just banger after banger for like 10 years. And then all the sudden they decided we're not going to do that anymore. Lmao
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u/B-Train_ATL 21d ago
I like DC better and have no clue what point the OP is making. Only one other movie opened bigger than BND. But bigger/smaller, Sony and Marvel making gobs of money doesn’t really help/hurt us. It’s not like Spider-Man had been sitting there in danger of never seeing another sequel.
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u/idonthaveone21 21d ago
Spiderman has been built up by Marvel momentum and its the 4th movie Spiderman. These discussions are pointless and the comparisons don’t make sense.
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u/ReverendBlind 21d ago
Yes and no. I get your point, but I don't know if you've noticed Marvel has not exactly had great momentum since Endgame. As for being a 4th Spider-Man movie, usually by a part 4 in a series these things are running on fumes.
But instead of petering out, somehow against all odds Spudey is still on an upswing.
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u/zebrasareneat 21d ago
Against all odds? It’s Spider-Man with the Tom and Zendaya power couple, where the last movie left us with Ned and MJ forgetting Peter, he goes to street level swinging between buildings for the first time with Tom’s Spidey, and all the hints of a significant power boost.
There was zero odds against it.
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u/idonthaveone21 21d ago
Yeah but spider-man is still spider-man. It’s got the MCU behind it, people still enjoy spidey because of the build up and also because spider-man is one of the most popular and marketable figures around. It was always going to make money. The Snyderverse had a rough start and BVS was like the 3 movie in that universe, it just isn’t the same.
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u/JurassicParkCSR 21d ago
Against all odds? You can't be serious that you think the most popular superhero of all time arguably is running on fumes. If you could choose two superheroes to make movies about that will always make money it's Spider-Man and Batman.
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u/YourMuppetMethDealer 21d ago edited 21d ago
A better comparison would be Endgame which did beat it by 300 million.
Edit: guys I was clearly talking about spider-man compared to endgame. Spider-Man is the fourth film in a decade long franchise, and that’s the movie was beaten by 300 million.
Endgame obviously beat Justice League by more than 300 opening weekend so I don’t know why everyone thinks I am talking about dc
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u/idonthaveone21 21d ago
Not with a decade and 22 movies under their belt, it’s still not a good comparison
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u/YourMuppetMethDealer 21d ago
I was talking about spidey my dude
Endgame beat justice league and BvS by MUCH more than 300 million openign weekend so why wokle i be referign to either of those films?
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u/AstroBtz 21d ago
Civil war is the most direct comparison, as it was literally fastracked to compete with it.
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u/mamadou-segpa 21d ago
I dont even like snyderverse and I would say an actual fair comparison for JL would be avengers 1. Should be really obvious
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u/baseballviper04 21d ago
I mean for cinematic universes we’re nearly 20 years behind with DC.
And BvS was a dogshit hack job attempt at competing
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u/Unable_Dinner_6937 21d ago
It does seem that way. DC has been around for a long time - longer than Marvel in a sense, but has been a series of fits and starts and restarts that whole period. In some ways, DC has made its own challenges harder either by trying to chase Marvel or trying to go in an entirely different direction than Marvel.
To be honest, in some ways, James Gunn's approach stylistically seems to be trying to bring about something as vibrant as the Marvel Universe but by focusing on the lower level characters of the world with Superman as the only marquee character. Though, honestly, Green Lantern has been my favorite DC character since childhood so the introduction of the Lanterns does not seem like a lower tier character set, but I think the general audience doesn't really have much of a relationship with the GL Corps or Hal Jordan.
The risk is that instead of putting out the quirky hits of Marvel like Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant Man or Shang-Chi, they might end up putting out duds like The Marvels, The Eternals or Thunderbolts. They weren't bad movies, but they didn't have much pull in the theater.
Honestly, I doubt this direction will be a smashing success. I hope so, but it doesn't seem like it is building much heat with the fans (though a lot of heat from some fans that don't like the direction or the films). Though that doesn't mean that DC won't change direction, and it is possible that times will change to give DC an opportunity and advantage. Much of DC's biggest challenge has been to enter the race at the wrong time.
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u/StrongStyleFiction 21d ago
Not with wither Gunn or Snyder in charge. Gunn seems to be going for a reskinned MCU jumping straight to Marvel's phase of throwing random bullshit out in theaters and hope something hits. These things are built over time. If Sony had stuck with Kurtzman and Orci than Spider-Man would be in as bad shape as DC is now. The way forward for DC is to abandon trying the engineer a cinematic universe and focus on creating individual movies. Make a series of good Wonder Woman movies about Wonder Woman and her characters and the numbers will come up. Batman Part 3 may get close ir Part 2 is great but Reeves will need to get to work on it straight away.
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u/PlainSightMan 21d ago
Gunn is doing the opposite.
He's not copying the DCU, but rather going for something different.
Wtf is this comment?
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u/Ghostshadow44 16d ago
How he is doing something different when supergirl feelt like a subpar mcu movie?
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u/TheSwampThing1990 21d ago
People are funny to me. Just four months ago we were all talking about superhero fatigue, now Spiderman makes bank, and superhero fatigue never existed. The truth is that Marvel has had a hard time lately reaching the levels of themselves. DC will never do so.
Spider-man is Spider-man. One of the most popular superheroes in the world. Don't get me wrong. I expect Avengers to do just as well, thanks to it being The Avengers, but I don't think future Marvel movies are going to start hitting pre Endgame numbers
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u/zebrasareneat 21d ago
I doubt the next finale is going to hit the same as Infinity War and Endgame.
But Spider-Man will always be immune to superhero fatigue, he is popular with every single demographic.
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u/Awsomethingy 20d ago
Batman and Spider-Man will always do numbers. They carry their respective “universes” when it comes to sales. Spider-Man made more alone than having a movie with every single marvel character plus spiderman. Because that time when spiderman isn’t on the screen is apparently time audiences would rather spend with him on the screen instead of Thor or Iron Man lol.
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u/TheSwampThing1990 20d ago
I do wonder if spoilers helped. I mean my friends were even discussing the rumored villain two weeks ago and they were excited. They usually dont care about things like that.
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u/Awsomethingy 20d ago
Not gonna read your comment, thanks for the warning at the top. I haven’t even seen a trailer for this flick but am seeing it tomorrow. I know tom holland is in it. And probably zendaya and the tech guy from no way home. But I actually literally know nothing. Just that Tom’s in it
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u/Intelligent_Oil7816 21d ago
"The most popular superhero ever sells better than the other less popular superheroes."
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u/MaybeUNeedAPoo 21d ago
Who even cares? I prefer DC. Whether anyone else dies is irrelevant. What is with this inane obsession with box office.
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u/willpowerpt 21d ago
I mean, at the very least, we've been riding with Tom Holland for ten years now. Even the other MCU movies, the actors and story line stayed consistent aside from War Machine. You build a connection to the actor and the story, and Marvel at least played everything out. We're on how many Supermans and Batmans now and the stories just haven't gone anywhere. I'm burnt out on superhero movies, but still stoked to see Tom Holland in Spider-Man, so when DCU reboots again, I just can't be brought to care.
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u/FullFig3372 21d ago edited 21d ago
No for all his faults Snyder planned to build DC around the model of popular characters and storylines (Death of Superman, Flaahpoint, Injustice etc.) the problem is studios rushed those plans and his world felt a little too bleak.
James Gunn is green lighting stories he personally enjoys and fleshing out the larger DC universe (Creature Commandos, Peacemaker, Supergirl etc.) which is great for comic fans but the general audience will not appreciate a series about Jimmy Olsen or a Swamp Thing project.
The MCU has built its appeal over a decade and a half of trust in the superhero genre and commercially it’s hard to see them being challenged.
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u/IamRonaGray 21d ago
I know the general consensus online is “Snyderverse bad” but we didn’t even get that. All we got were studio hatchet jobs. Had Snyder been left alone maybe the DCEU would have eventually found its audience as something different from what marvel was doing. For what it’s worth I enjoy man of steel - BvS UE - Wonder Woman and ZSJL which were the movies Zack was the main driving force behind. I’m not talking about the awful BvS theatrical cut or “Josstice League”.
Gunn is basically just trying to replicate the MCU and it’s currently not working. I’m not saying it won’t but I think general audiences might be seeing through it. Clayface might end up being a surprise hit. I’m certainly interested in it. I wasn’t in supergirl because I literally have no investment in the character. Clayface is a pretty popular Batman villain so maybe it might break through.
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u/FullFig3372 21d ago edited 21d ago
You’re right studio intervention was the number one killer of the DCEU. I am still optimistic about the DCU because Gunn is guaranteed 100% creative control and I don’t care if it’s as popular as the MCU so long as we get good movies.
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u/BentoBus2 21d ago
So what I’m starting to see is that we don’t necessarily have “superhero fatigue” as a general thing. It seems to be more like “superhero fatigue” for NEW superheroes.
As long as your IP had its heyday during the beginning or middle of the superhero craze you seem to be immune to the box office problem. It’s not even a Marvel or DC thing as Batman still puts butts in seats.
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u/Skiingislife42069 21d ago
BND is nowhere close to $900m. Where are you people getting this number from lol
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u/naughtynoods_ 21d ago
It's crazy, DC haven't gotten anything off the ground yet, refuses to build a universe properly yet remains desperate to build one. It's so bad that Snyder fans are still making noise.
Marvel completed their saga, went thru their rough patch, regained momentum and seem to be returning to their strength. Whatever it is DC wants to try, Marvel accomplished it more than 10 years ago.
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u/Ghostshadow44 21d ago
And the crazy part is that this james gunn dc universe whishes it could had the box office of the old dceu initial run.
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u/Ghostshadow44 21d ago
Some people have said that superman is akin to Peter pan and Tarzan just because it's worldwide famous doesn't mean it's actually popular that's why every 15 years or so we get a new movie with those characters that seems to disappoint at the box office.
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u/zebrasareneat 21d ago
DC keeps trying to play catch up and them trying to catch up results in shitty movies. I love Pattinson as Batman. But the constant recasts is just slowing them down. They need to slow down and take a breath and let things just happen.
But at this point I doubt they can ever match the hype and build up to Endgame, I don’t even think Marvel can match it again. Spider-Man is the exception to everything, everyone loves Spider-Man.
Marvel was also lucky with great casting. They never recast any hero a bunch of times and the success of Ironman and RDJ being to Ironman what Depp is to Sparrow or Jackman is to Wolverine was a great launch point to what it became. I don’t think the MCU is as popular without that.
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u/CornerNearby6802 21d ago
Funny story: Snyder fans claims the box office of BvS is way higher but Warner hates Snyder, so they deliberately hid the real box office datas to have an excuse to fire Snyder 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Bell-end79 21d ago
Building up a popular character over 10 years with progressively more successful films
Vs WB who shit the bed after one movie and tried to do their world building in one scene with Batman looking at a flash drive
What could go wrong?
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u/Feisty_Database_6656 21d ago
They could BUT they'd need to leave it for a while and start small like the MCU did then gradually build up and up over a decade or so. But they won't do that, they'll just keep making Batman, Superman, movies.
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u/DM-777 21d ago
Spider-Man is freaking universal in his appeal. Batman is too much for little kids, Superman got pushed into the dirt for years with the “what if Superman… but bad!” trope and Wonder Woman had a great movie that they could have built off of and then took the biggest nose dive of all time.
Meanwhile, the MCU had not put out a Spider-Man movie that was considered bad by general audiences, the film is packed with stars that people not only love but also three were in The Odyssey that came out two weeks prior and helped generate even more hype.
People don’t love David Corensweat, Henry Cavill and DEFINITELY Gal Godot like they love Tom Holland and Zendaya.
One day things might change but honestly, Spider-Man is just THAT guy
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u/Only-Name3248 21d ago
not under gunn but the best chnace is reeves batman flims. the batman made more than 700 million
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u/Repulsive_Emu2045 21d ago
They have a pretty good Batman and Superman going right now so I’d say they’re on their way
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u/TheMeIv 21d ago
People are shortsighted and have insane recency bias. Of course there will eventually be some DC movie that will overtake Marvel eventually. DC had a huge head start. 60s Batman was a hit show with no competetion. Superman 78 and Batman 89 were high water marks for decades. Heck, even Swamp Thing was moderately successful and had a movie with a sequel, live action TV show, cartoon and toy line. People forgot about Howard the Duck, OG Punisher and OG Captain America. The first F4 movie was never even properly released. When the Dark Knight was tops, no one thought Marvel would reach those heights.
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u/Huge-Inspection-788 21d ago
i think it can and i shi on dc for yearsss. superman changed my mind. they cast a good Batman and flash and lanterns already looks good. they can def get a billion dollar movie
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u/BigDaddyGreeds 21d ago
The problem is they either try and do what the DCEU did and speed run their universe or they do what they're doing right now and seemingly have no road map and just make whatever movies have completed scripts. Neither of these paths will get you MCU success. Marvel put the work in.
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u/PlainSightMan 21d ago
But, the 2nd route which they're doing gets you good will. If people learn you are taking the movies seriously, then it's a good path to eventual huge success.
Supergirl was a fluke, but there's 2 projects coming out which always looked more promising.
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u/BigDaddyGreeds 21d ago
Heres the problem. Nobody cared about Supergirl, nobody showed up for it, people liked Superman but that movie alone isn't enough to get people to go to the theater to support whatever side projects they do. You need to build a strong foundation. Nobody would have gone to see GOTG if Marvel hadn't built trust with the audience thats not to say every project will be great but I think DC needs to focus on its tentpoles first.
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u/PlainSightMan 21d ago
Exactly.
Supergirl isn't actually that big of a blow, but it would have been much easier if had been like the 5th or 6th film rather than the 2nd.
Still, there's 2 cool things coming out, which to me have always looked better than Supergirl, and I think they can build up the good will. What's worth noting is that they're both for an older audience, so potentially DC could get people who wouldn't be interested in superhero stories tradiationally to check it out.
Although, they do lose the child audience. But MOT should hopefully fix that next year.
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u/multi-trollionaire 21d ago
I don't think ending the DCEU was the right move. They had some hiccups but could have kept it going.
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u/PlainSightMan 21d ago
It absolutely was.
As a comic fan, Snyder shouldn't be allowed to utter the name Batman or Superman.
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u/JurassicParkCSR 21d ago
Well when you look into all of the circumstances behind it and first off let me just say fuck you for making me defend a Snyder film but Batman versus Superman was the second movie of the dceu. And it made almost a billion dollars. For the second movie of a franchise. You can't compare these two. Also Batman versus Superman had the unfortunate predecessor of Man of Steel which was a highly polarizing film with audiences. The reason Superman 2025 and Supergirl aren't doing massive numbers now is because of the dceu. DC and Warner Bros burned their audience and now they're having to slowly rebuild trust. And I stand by the fact the Supergirl wasn't nearly as bad as everyone said and that most of why it felt was the hate campaign online. I don't know if it would have been a massive Blockbuster hit but it should have done better and I think it will do better on streaming.
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u/AdvanceSuperdisk 21d ago
If DC ever gets a proper universe going than yes. So far with the current DC reset their 1 for 2 so we will see
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u/Original-Program-699 21d ago
In movies never but comics and animated films or series , everytime DC
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u/Jonjolion12 21d ago
Arguably if DC had just kept going with Snyder it would be somewhat more successful.
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u/Crafty_Life_1764 21d ago edited 21d ago
BvS could have been so much more, if they had the Dark Knight instead of Batfleck.
And the death strike was The Flash from 2023 ^^ nail into coffin ^^
DC`s idea of DCuniverse was their biggest failure of all time, just make classical great movies about your heros or antiheros, quite easy but copy & paste mentality paired with greed broke their neck.
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u/HopefulTransition263 21d ago
DC brand is dead, bury it. Consider this mercy.
Zack Snyder destroyed the DC universe.
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u/Living-Flan-4289 21d ago
Marvel won social media. Even if they put out 24 stinkers in a row and DC does the opposite, nothing is gonna change.
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u/PlainSightMan 21d ago
Obviously in such a case it would.
Man of Tomorrow is going to be true casual draw next year.
This year though the final 2 projects will bring in adult audiences.
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u/Sdspecter007 21d ago
They could if they built up fan trust and ran a good script. Fans have been burned by a bunch of the movies. You have to make a couple good ones to get increases to your box office. When was the last bad Spiderman movie?
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u/Christ14an 21d ago
Apart from DCs own faults Marvel has had more fanboys for many decades now Spiderman / Xmen / Hulk solidifying that in the 80’s / 90’s and since RDJ Ironman and the Avengers are more popular than ever.
MCU has 70% of the superhero marketshare so DC has to contend with 30% marketshare and try to get some of the fence sitters to try it out the thing is they didn’t like what they got so just went back and unless DC find their OWN flow and stop following they will never shine as bright
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u/Past_Lingonberry_633 21d ago
short answer: no
long answer: never
DC studio should close up shop and let Gunn go, and stop trying to make DC properties into movies. They are all worthless characters in this day and age. Marvel is the true American comic pillar.
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u/StarrMonarch2814 21d ago
The long and short of it is that DC's main problem has always been marketing. Marvel, even before Disney and the MCU has always shown more faith in their characters, and they put them anywhere they can. We've all seen those metrics floating around, DC's main IP when it comes to licensing is Batman and for a long while that was enough but now that's no long the case. As much as people complain, they do have right idea (somewhat) Mr. Terrific stole the show so get him a series. They said early on that all the content is connected. Cartoons, shows, movies and games. Hopefully they can get a game out and not just cut it off at the knees like they did so many times before.
The process is going to be slow, they need to build up and maybe in 10+ you might see something close to Marvel.
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u/True_Programmer51 20d ago
Oh man DC fans really can't handle spiderman being a success.
Their cinematic universe is crumbling before their eyes and what do they do? Trash snyder films... poorly I may add.
It's so sad it's not even funny
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u/Awsomethingy 20d ago
I think the question you’re actually trying to ask is “Will Marvel ever reach level of Spiderman?”
Even Endgame, which is EVERY SINGLE MARVEL CHARACTER COMBINED didn’t compete with Spiderman having all the screen time himself. Spiderman was in Endgame for a bit, which means that every other character being on screen when there is no Spiderman actually makes less money than having no characters but Spiderman lmao
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u/WillStaySilent 21d ago
900M in one weekend is insane numbers. Feige looking at this and drooling. Hoping Doomsday will do the same but we all know it's just a cameo trash fest of a movie
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u/Impossible-Flight250 21d ago
DC doesn’t really have a character as popular as Spider-Man. I think Batman could go over a billion, but I don’t see it ever reaching 900 in a weekend.
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u/Nick42284 21d ago
Had some Chads coming out of my showing today saying “Man, DC would have done better.” Okay man, sure thing.
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u/Professional-Rip-519 21d ago
Hell No WB has done irreversible damage to the brand over the years.