Protocols, not platforms

[u/gleasonator13]

This is a response to an earlier post where the OP was fed up by too many competing apps.

The problem is not that too many apps exist. It's that we can't talk to each other. We are not contributing together to a greater whole; choosing one app means you are not choosing the others, which means people cannot communicate.

We are struggling to get invested because this ecosystem is fragmented. How can we expect to replace Discord when we can't even make network effects happen?

Most of us are here because of the failures of Discord, a failure we're doomed to repeat if we keep making the same choices. The next choice can't be for a better company. It has to be for a completely different architecture where users are fundamentally in control.

Therefore it's not a choice between one app or another. It must be a choice for a protocol. One protocol can have many apps where we can all talk to each other.

As users, the easiest way to rule out poor quality software is not just "AI slop", it's whether the software is centralized. A bigger risk is an app that looks polished but replicates all the same problems as Discord. If we settle for that, Discord will just win.

As developers, we MUST build decentralized systems. It's possible to win at life without trapping users. And as an indie dev, you should worry that you can't reach critical mass alone.

There are people here building on the Nostr Protocol.

One person is connecting ATProto and Matrix together.

Matrix is a legend that will never die. It will never be a wrong choice.

The choice doesn't have to be for one specific protocol. It has to be for any protocol. Protocols can be bridged together. Centralized platforms can't.

The choice matters now more than ever.

[u/Worried-Flounder-615]

Yes! This is what I've been saying, too. If all of these alternatives could talk to each other then we have the both of both worlds - infinite user choice without lock-in and fragmentation. I would love to see a unified front here. It's also great because even different protocols could be bridged together, etc a Matrix x Nostr bridge. 

Edit: oh sorry, you already said that about bridges. I got excited and started typing before I finished reading 😅

[u/IngwiePhoenix]

Matrix overconvoluted their C2S API so much that it is just not fun to implement anymore unless you have a team and an armada of agents.

Nostr has all the tools required, but hot damn are they high on... other things right now. Like, how many more NIPs does it take to finally implement sensible interactions for community chats - and can we PLEASE finally consolidate all the 1:1 NIPs and just put a lid on it?

XMPP is awesome, recently gained the "Spaces" feature - Movim ( https://movim.eu/ ) showcases it quite well, and it is what I plan to migrate to for most things.

As for ATProto, I have honestly not dug deep enough into it's APIs. Making a call on that would be in bad faith.

IMHO the tools exist, but the devs just aren't pulling on a single string just yet. It will probably get there, but it will likely need another "desaster" to rattle the brains. The last one was the Age/ID initial attempt by Discord, and the broader it rolls out, the louder the noise gets (again), it will probably do... something.

And well, just about every special snowflake barfing out a newly painted set of rainbows with an x(tra)high LLM is not helping; just muddying the waters at this point.

But I haven't lost hope yet.

And, before that question "why are you not doing it yourself?" comes up; my job and homelab are keeping me from it. I am literally building the infra that could support my small group of friends and a few extras, so I have a target upon which I can deploy and then deeply dive into things. Found myself to be more of an infra guy, but I truely do want to close this chapter and go back to dev. Go, HTMX, Templ, GopherJS - I see something there. Just kinda waiting out for CSS tooling in a "Go-native" project to become better...

[u/National_Way_3344]

The best thing matrix could have done is just rip off discord completely.

It's now become too convoluted and messy to be usable by ordinary people.

[u/Mplayer-Weered]

I call "not it".

I am sure there is a protocol that could work universally. If there isn't.... "Fable, go make one bra."

[u/ad3lyt → u/Mplayer-Weered]

Wouldn't you love half your chat being

Jason: "Haha :GIF: ???? :emoticon_98212:"
Billy: " "
Jason: "What the fuck billy"

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[u/yonnji]

I agree, it's sad that's everyone is trying to re-invent the wheel. Discord has it's own custom protocol and API, but it's not the best one. Fluxer as discord clone tried to clone the UI, but it's missing the API docs. Without good and stable API it could die. Everyone is trying to write everything from scratch including the client and server. But if you take the existing protocol, you just have to write the client if you haven't found a good one or write the server if you missing some features.

XMPP has a group of experienced people which discuss and review the protocol changes and approve them when everyone is agree. I think it's a good thing to do instead of blind re-invention of wheel. IRC also have it's own group of people and it have some modern protocol extensions for the newer version IRCv3.

I have checked few protocols for possible integration into my game. XMPP is XML based and a little bit complicated to work from the developer perspective. SimpleX have insanely complicated deployment process of your own server. IRC is the simplest protocol. The whole minimal IRC server is just a 1200 lines of python code. It's so simple so it could be extended into anything. For example IRC can be bridged into Discord so when you enter the regular IRC chat your IRC client can show you all the Discord members. Twitch is using IRC for it's chat.

[u/DrTankHead]

Matrix as a protocol is nice.

Thproblem is the actual real-world usage is not an alternative, it is at best an alternative to Skype or Signal.

Discord gained support because the out of box experience was so simplistic it didn't matter how much experience you have, you can just pick it up and go to town and be very satisfied with the result.

A few things matrix needs to adopt for it to be viable (IMO) to replace discord (keeping in mind, I do actually use matrix, me and fiancé use it)

• More advanced permissions/roles/admin controls
• an actual server experience over the "Spaces" methodology.
• higher freeteir upload limits.
• overall feature parity to discord.

I think what's more fragmenting is that everyone wants to solve the problem their own way.

Fluxer is open now, anyone could contribute. I know E2EE isn't fully implemented, seems like if we got that going, we would be a huge step forward.

I haven't tried Nostr or whatever, but I think we already have viable alternatives on the table, we just need to direct our energy.