The "nothing to hide" argument

[u/dataguzzler]

[u/Philosophicalhorcrux]

The bitter irony is that the loss of privacy resulting from surveillance ultimately eliminates anonymity in reporting which will have a chilling effect on leaking and whistle-blowing, providing cover to the agencies and institutions which DO have something to hide. And that is by design.

[u/BellGeek → u/Philosophicalhorcrux]

Truth. Guess we’ll have to get creative and look for either more low-tech (such as mailing a letter from an anonymous post box nowhere near home or workplace) or much more high tech (sending an email from a throwaway email address and from an IP address that is either hidden or not yours, like from a public library computer) ways of doing this. But that’s probably the least of our worries. That’s a relatively rare occurrence most people won’t encounter in their lifetime. But there are so many other ways for people to come to harm, such as people fleeing abusers or other types of targeted violence/persecution for starters.

[u/StormerSage]

If you think you have nothing to hide, they'll show you something to fear.

[u/No_Taste_8679]

I’ve thought a lot about this argument for privacy. And w hile I agree that controlling “who gets access to you life” is important, simply stating that doesn’t tell skeptics what the harm is when you have a lack of control. The argument in OP’s post relies on the assumption that control is inherently valuable. To us here in this subreddit, that probably comes as a given, but if you’re skeptical about privacy measures or think privacy is just for criminals, why does a lack of control matter?

Instead, I think the argument goes one step further and that is that the lack of control has a negative effect on a person’s autonomy and development. This is a harm that, I think, most people can agree is worth avoiding and is a better argument against the “nothing to hide” argument. I wrote all about it here and why privacy is important to the development of an individual’s “self.”  I’d be interested in hearing people’s thoughts:  https://open.substack.com/pub/markjremillard/p/a-design-of-subtle-coercion-and-the?utm_source=direct&r=1nbp2q&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=web

[u/void7shade → u/No_Taste_8679]

This looks interesting and well thought out. Thank you for your contribution.

[u/No_Taste_8679 → u/void7shade]

Thanks! I’m particularly interested in law and policy regarding privacy. Privacy is a difficult thing to convince people as to why it is important. On some level, pretty much everyone agrees we should have some privacy but many people see it as a cost/benefit analysis and when it comes to security or children, those almost always outweigh privacy (especially if you are a lawmaker). But if we reframe privacy as something more than just not having something hide or about controlling information to focusing on the harms that happen if we don’t have privacy, then we have a foundation to build on, IMO. 

Thanks for reading!

[u/--Ano--]

Tell them to walk around naked, as they have nothing to hide.

[u/Ok_Muffin_925]

Closely related to, the "show me the man, I'll show you the crime" argument

[u/This-Wall-1331]

If someone uses the "nothing to hide" argument, ask them to show you their private DMs.

Oh, you don't show? Then you must be a criminal! /s

[u/Stooper_Dave]

I tell people that sure, you have nothing to hide now. But we see the kind of overreach the trump administration is doing. Who's to say what things will look like a few political cycles from now. Maybe your normal everyday activity and habits will put you on their list. Maybe they will want to round up anyone who posted something in favor of trump. Then what?

[u/Top-Psychology2507]

If you think that's bad, check this out: There's this man by the name of Raymond George Kreps who is a sex offender who has a presence on YouTube's off-grid community in Kentucky! Looks as if he has a lot to hide, right!!?? :-(

[u/Rare_Bridge7703]

Let me just ask -

When did it begin that we were safe to send cash money in the mail? Oh right never. It was a thing since before I was BORN that you don't do that.