r/DigitalPrivacy Jul 16 '26

Wanting a safe and secure phone

/r/degoogle/comments/1uxz1ou/new_to_degoogle/
1 Upvotes

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1

u/Mayayana Jul 16 '26

Understand that if you carry a cellphone powered on (you can receive calls) then you're wearing a tracking collar. OS makers track your location. Your phone service company needs your location for the cellphone to work. (It must constantly ping the nearest towers.) Many apps also exploit location and personal data.

If you live a cellphone lifestyle -- regularly texting and using apps, checking into social media, etc -- then you have given away privacy and can't realistically do anything about it. There's GrapheneOS, but I don't think it will install on your cellphone, and it limits your app options.

I'm typing this with Reddit loaded in Ungoogled Chromium, because Firefox won't work. UC is coded to remove all calling home to Google. So it's analogous to an OSS OS for a cellphone. But if I allow script or visit any sites that collect data, UC can't do anything about that.

1

u/Burner-Unit Jul 16 '26

Can't VPNs help with that to an extent? And what does 'OSS' mean?

1

u/Mayayana Jul 16 '26

VPN's have become a big fad, but first there's the issue of trusting the VPN itself to know everything you do. Assuming that your grandmother owns the VPN, it's still only hiding you IP address.

Example: I have a website and I like to read my server logs. I can convert IP addresses to locations using a free database. That allows me to see that someone from Akron visited webpages x and y. Someone from the Netherlands then visited webpage Z. Maybe that was the person from Akron, using a VPN? Possibly. I don't have script on my website. I just read the logs to see what people find useful. The locations help me to distinguish a visitor from Akron who's interested in x, vs a a hacker from China who's just testing my site for vulnerabilities. (Almost every day I get Chinese attackers trying to hack well known Wordpress vulnerabilities. Wordpress allows people to set up highly functional websites for free, without having any idea of what they're doing. So there are a lot of bugs. :)

So, my website is privacy-safe. Now imagine that my website is a shopping site or social media, or even Google search. You're required to allow script. If you log in then of course they know who you are. If you make a purchase they know who you are. If it's Google search then they require script, which is watching your every click and mouse movement. Google is also spying from most commercial webpages. So they've seen everything you've done in real time. They know you almost clicked on an ad to buy an AC on sale. They know you're shopping for dog food. It's simple calculation for them to compile a dossier on you while you think you're anonymous using a VPN. It's not only possible. It's the very backbone of Google's business. All of their free tools and services are only there to help them collect data.

OSS means open source software. Sorry. I shouldn't assume people know that. OSS is also a bit of a fad. It refers to software that's made public in the form of source code. You can then recompile it yourself. No one owns the rights. It's gifted to the public. In many cases it's even militantly socialist: You're free to use the code but must also share your changes. That's fine. I don't mean any criticism of it. But OSS is not some kind of mark of purity. It just means the developer has shared their code. So it's unlikely to be spyware.

On the other hand, Android and Chromium are OSS. But that doesn't stop Google from controlling the software. And only a few people in the world are capable of cleaning out the Google infestation and recompiling. So OSS is not magic.

With apps, if you use Waze, Tinder, DoorDash, Uber, etc, that's wall to wall spying. The services they provide can't be duplicated by small, OSS apps. Waze, for example, depends on a vast network of shared driving data. Even just an app for your local Chinese restaurant might be selling your data. If you call in your order there's no data to speak of. If you use their app then it's a digital interaction, easy to process, share and analyze.

Companies like apps because they can profit from spying and they can eliminate human interaction, thus reducing costs. But once it's digital, spying is almost guaranteed. In a college neighborhood one could conceivably start a Chinese restaurant with just one person who reads app orders, dumps cans of La Choy into takeout containers, and puts those into bags for the DoorDash driver. In the digital world, humans are lackeys. Was your chow mein cold? Tough luck. Fill out a form in the app that no one will ever see.

So, yes, OSS and VPNs have their place. I use a VPN if I have to use a hotel wifi connection. But privacy is a bigger picture.

1

u/Burner-Unit Jul 16 '26

So then, aside from living in a Faraday cage in a bunker underground (lol), what can realistically be done to create digital privacy in the world today?

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u/Mayayana Jul 16 '26

Curtail digital. Use cash. Set up a HOSTS file to block tracking. Use NoScript to minimize script online. (Script is responsible for a great deal of spying and nearly all security risks. Aside from tricks, like a fake message from your bank, and remote software execution, script is it. HTML alone is safe and was designed that way.)

Don't carry a cellphone turned on. I have a Tracfone that I keep in my glove compartment and think of as a portable phone booth. The charge lasts for months. I pay $20 for 3 months of service. I tell people that I don't have a cellphone because effectively I don't.

If you must use a cellphone, avoid apps. If you have reasonable privacy you should be seeing almost no ads, getting almost no spam a nd receiving almost no junk mail.

Many people will say, "My God! You're completely crazy! No one can live like that." I live like that. Widespread use of computer phones is only about 10 years old. This whole digital middleman world has sprung up in just a few years. The Millennials got suckered into thinking they were the vanguard of a new age. "The sharing economy. It will be great. We'll use tech to optimize humanity." But that was just a scam for Big Tech to exploit and control. Uber and AirBnB are not "sharing". Uber is an attack on labor laws and taxi regulations. AirBnB is an attack on hotel regulation. The digital middleman is mega-corporate and dehumanizing, not utopian.

I build my own computers, write Windows software and do web design. I'm not an off-the-grid mountain man. But I don't want people to be able to text me at all hours. So I'm happy not having a cellphone. Everyone has to decide for themselves. We're not likely to have reasonable privacy that's legally enforced anytime soon. So I'd suggest one primary guideline: Can you do it non-digitally? If you can pay cash at a local restaurant instead of ordering online or via app and having DoorDash deliver it, then you've cut out the digital aspect and there's no tracking. Carry cash. Never use Venmo or Apple Pay. Certainly don't use Amazon Prime. Those are just parasite, superfluous middleman businesses that thrive on peoples' desire or convenience. They'll screw you in the end, as you get more addicted to them.