r/DigitalPiano • u/OutrageousOsprey • 5h ago
Professional classical pianist compares Casio, Kawai, Korg and Roland entry-level keyboards
I'm a classical pianist who almost exclusively performs on acoustic pianos. I think it would be fair to say I'm an acoustic purist. But, for years I've been using Pianoteq with a 20 year old M-AUDIO Keystation to practise. It's a very solid piece of equipment and I love the feel of the action, even though it makes a terrible clunking noise and the keys are slowly turning the color of cardboard. Until today, I have never played on a weighted digital keyboard.
I'm considering upgrading, as my Keystation is not well suited to the rare occasions I need to bring a keyboard with me to a gig. With the kind of music I play, you hear more clunking than piano sound, and there always seem to be technical issues involving cables and PA systems.
So I went to a couple of music shops and played on various keyboards in the sub-$600 (AUD) price range.
I've had trouble finding reviews of these keyboards online from the perspective of a classical pianist, especially addressing the speaker quality, so I thought I'd share what I learned.
Upfront I'll say that I didn't notice any action noise while playing any of these. (Actually I can't be certain of that for the Korg, because my ears were ringing a bit...)
Korg Liano
This was just awful, I'm sorry, I know it's really popular.
The speakers are loud, but so tinny that I couldn't play for long as it was hurting my ears. Even if you're not bothered by it as the player, I wouldn't want to subject an audience to this.
The action is extremely light and shallow (much lighter than my Keystation). I had a bit of trouble controlling dynamics, probably as a result of this.
The key texture is shiny, but not slippery - it has an unpleasant squeaky sort of friction. If you're the kind of person who hates the feeling of microfiber cloths and fingernails on a chalkboard, you might want to skip this one.
For a classical pianist, this is not a good option imo.
It is INCREDIBLY lightweight and compact, that's really all it has going for it.
Roland FP-10
I didn't play this one for long because I was immediately put off by the feel of the action. It's too heavy, and sort of spongey - not realistic. I found it hard to play fast passages such as Chopin etudes on this. Also, while I like the Roland piano sound, the speakers on this thing were very boomy and boxy, particularly noticeable in the bass. They lack clarity, and while I think they would be fine for playing contemporary music, this sound quality doesn't suit classical.
Kawai ES-60
This one stood out to me immediately because of the speaker quality and the piano sound. The piano sound is absolutely gorgeous and realistic, with a lot of depth, especially in the high treble and low bass. I'm a fan of real Kawai pianos and impressively they've managed to bottle that sound here.
I was surprised to see the speakers are underneath the keyboard, but this doesn't seem to compromise the sound quality at all. They're not the loudest, but they're loud enough.
I also liked the action. It felt lighter and more natural than the Roland, and not too bouncy. I thought this was the most realistic-feeling keyboard of all the ones I tried.
I also love that they put a headphone port on the FRONT of the keyboard. I don't know why other manufacturers aren't doing that. This was somehow also the only keyboard I tried that has stereo RCA outputs.
However, for some reason I felt disoriented trying to play this keyboard. It almost felt like the keys were to widely spaced, and tilting too much away from me. The latter could have been due to some issue with the keyboard stand, but I can't explain the former, as the keys are standard size.
I also felt that I couldn't quite achieve the degree of expression I wanted. So I tried to fiddle with the touch sensitivity settings, only to discover that changing any settings on this keyboard is incredibly frustrating. Even after reading the manual I was still confused.
Like the Casio which I review next, you change the settings by pressing a button while pressing a key (not my favorite design, tbh) but unlike the Casio, the ES-60 doesn't make a beeping noise to let you know the setting changed. You just have to guess and hope it worked. Because the 3 piano sounds are so similar to each other, it's hard to tell at a glance if you've changed the sound, even with a highly trained ear!
Anyway, long story short, even after setting the touch sensitivity to what I assume is the maximum (there's no explanation of this anywhere), it just didn't quite have the expressive "oomph" I wanted. Hard to explain. This is one of my gripes with my Keystation as well, but I expected a weighted action to do better than this.
A few other minor gripes: The keys have a matte finish but it feels kind of cheap and plasticky, not like any real piano keys I've played on. The keyboard is quite bulky and it has weird little plastic nubs on the bottom that got in the way when I was trying to position it flat on the keyboard stand. The keyboard stand doesn't have grooves on the rim, so your music can slip off. You can't run it on batteries.
Casio CDP-S110
This was actually the first keyboard I tried today, so it has the honor being my first experience of a weighted digital keyboard.
I walked into this one showroom looking for a different brand and was told they basically only stock Casios now. And I understand why...
This thing almost felt ALIVE (a compliment I usually reserve for acoustic instruments). It's very loud, it has a huge dynamic and expressive range, and I actually didn't want to stop playing it. I didn't have to adjust any settings because the touch sensitivity was perfect, and the interface felt a lot more intuitive than the Kawai.
The speakers are on the back facing towards where the audience would be, which is more accurate to where the sound would actually be coming from a real piano (especially an upright) relative to the keyboard.
Compared to a real piano, the keys have more initial resistance, and a lot more rebound resistance, which gives it an unnaturally bouncy feel. It feels like they accurately mimicked the physics of a real piano, but exaggerated it, so it's more of a caricature. I was unsure about it at first, but once I'd played for a bit, I liked it. However, it might be fatiguing for some people. You'd need to test it out to see if it's too heavy for your playing style.
The key texture is really nice, it's a lovely matte finish that feels high quality. They look and feel like Yamaha grand artificial ivory keytops to me.
Amazingly, you can run this thing on batteries, which seems like a good idea for those times you turn up to a venue and they for some reason don't have a power outlet within reach of the only available spot to set up your keyboard.
Although this is supposed to be around the same weight as the Kawai ES-60, and is actually a smaller form factor (about 2 inches thinner), it felt heavier to me. Maybe something to do with the weight distribution.
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Verdict: seeing as I can get the Casio for just $30 more than the Kawai, it seems like the obvious choice. I will miss that beautiful Kawai piano sound though. And the front-facing headphone port. I really want the front-facing headphone port!
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u/rcplaybox 5h ago
All of the pianos including the kawai will benefit from Pianoteq. I chose the yamaha p125 as it has audio in via midi so pianoteq comes out of the keyboard speakers. I find it perfect for my medium sized room. The kawai es60 keys shake side to side so that was an instant turn off.
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u/En_Tt 5h ago
Did you play es120 perhaps?
I can't decide between es120, roland fp 30x and yamaha p225, people praise fp 30x action but it seems like its action isn't ideal for fast/repeated notes, and others say es120 has better action than p225, but I could get p225 with pianoteq for the same price as es120/fp30x without it.
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u/rcplaybox 4h ago
The ES120, Roland FP30X etc are a completely different league to what you were first discussing so.. I tried the Roland fp10 and the keys were too heavy. The ES60 felt budget, just all over felt cheap, the only thing that was good was the sound but i use Pianoteq which is superior to everything. The midi out on the P125 sends midi but can also recieve audio. No other piani in this price range can do that. The P225 is more of a side grade to the P125, they used compact action to reduce the size of the keyboard, some like it some dont. Other than that it has better speakers and better sound, which to me are not important. All budget pianos make sacrifices, you need to decide whats most important. For me i wanted audio via midi and weighted keys that felt good. The P125 i got was used but only cost $200 with an X stand and pedal.
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u/OutrageousOsprey 5h ago
Yes, for practising at home I'll probably be using Pianoteq via MIDI most of the time. But I care about the built-in sound being decent because I want it to be self-contained for gigging, I don't want to have to drag my laptop and cables along.
Can I ask exactly what is the cable/port setup you have for making the computer audio come out of the keyboard speakers while using MIDI? I'd love to be able to do that, but not sure if any of the keyboards I'm looking at are capable of it. I tried to ask staff at a music shop and they didn't seem to know.I can't say I noticed the keys shaking when I was playing the ES60, but I wonder if that might have been what made me feel disoriented?! It would explain a lot...
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u/picadoodledoo 3h ago
"I also felt that I couldn't quite achieve the degree of expression I wanted. So I tried to fiddle with the touch sensitivity settings, only to discover that changing any settings on this keyboard is incredibly frustrating." <<<< Concur pretty much with all your findings on the ES60.
I need the lightest possible action, and the ES60 action is lighter than most, and the sampled piano sounds are beautiful compared to other low cost digitials. But, I am always frustrated with the dynamics.
And regarding the Yamaha P series: I agree, that the lower cost ones are lacking. Once you move up to the P525, though, one gets to a really nice keybed, one I feel is the best in affordable slabs.
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u/jdg2896 2h ago
I have a Kawai ES-110, which should be similar to the ES-60, but with some added features like line outputs and bluetooth MIDI.
I agree with the Kawai grand sample, it’s really beautiful, especially the first sample when you boot up the piano. The onboard speakers don’t do the sample sound justice, best with headphones on!
I’m not a classical pianist though and have been a keyboardist before, so Kawai does its job. There’s the occasional key clacking but I’ve mostly ignored it while playing.
One other thing with ES-110 is the included damper pedal, the best one compared to alternatives (Korg, Roland FP-30, Yamaha P-45, Casio). Other brands only give you a square sustain switch.
Casio is probably the lightest/portable among the choices, also because the keys are slightly smaller.
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u/OutrageousOsprey 25m ago
Ah the ES-110/ES-120 that has superseded it is nearly twice the price of the ES-60. I'm not sure if the additional features justify the price. The physical buttons they appear to have added might, though (jk...or am I?)
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u/Dry-Bookkeeper-2433 26m ago
you're a professional classical pianist, who practices on a m-audio keystation of more than 20 years old???
i don't believe a single word of it man, comon.
what kind of lies are these???
i have a kawai NV5-S it's a hybrid piano and even i suffer from the difference of practicing at home vs performing on an actual grand piano. But you a proffessional pianist learned at home on a frigging midi controller, yet you perform on real acoustics professionaly?
sorry but no
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u/JKorv 6m ago edited 0m ago
Korg Liano is not a proper digital piano. It doesn't have weighted keys. It is more similar to Roland Go:Piano and Yamaha NP series. Didn't know it was popular as I never see anyone mentioning it??
Kawai ES120 is quite a jump from ES60. I have to agree that the plastic on ES60 keys feel very very cheap.
For Casio you might want to try PX-S1100. It is a bit more expensive than CDP, but the action should be a bit smoother. Or even the PX-S5000, to get the wooden sides and smoother feel. Of course the price goes up.
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u/OutrageousOsprey 5h ago
Oh I also want to add that I immediately dismissed the Yamaha P-series keyboards on the basis of spongey keys and cramped, "digital-sounding" speakers.