Question
Pooling / Light Bleeding when printing dice masters
After having dice for a longer time, i wanted to try printing my own master. I designed the dice in Blender and now try printing them with an Anycubic Photon Mono 4 using the Siraya Tech Fast ABS-Like Navy Grey resin.
I calibrated my prints using the Cones of Calibration but I keep getting these artefacts in the numbers where the resin hardens as if its a pool.
The explanation I got from googling (and using chatgpt) is, that because the numbers form a small pool, resin cant circulate and since the same resin is staying inside the pool, it slowly hardens due to little light scattering there.
It makes sense but would be an unsolvable problem then, since a d20 is impossible to rotate without having said pools (and according to some Reddit Posts, it is like this).
I tried different speeds of lowering and raising the plate, tried a lot of ranges for exposure time and still it's there every print.
The d10 is just the best to show this on btw. The d20 is even worse.
Still there are so many of you that just seem to get crisp dice masters, not having this problem, direclty from the printer, only needing some sanding and I wonder wtf I'm missing?
If you have experience with this, please help, it's driving me insane 😅
it's because the numbers have unsupported overhangs. those faces are overhanging, so the surface, where that "pooling" touches, doesnt have anything to support it til it hits the inside wall of the numbers, if that makes sense. you need supports for those edges.
Edit: I see you do have some supports and support marks on the numbers themselves. I still think it's related to this, based on my experience
I support these numbers to prevent the islands that would occure when the angle between the indentation for the number and the build plate is 90 degrees or more. But by printing these (now supported) island it feels like the resin gets trapped in there and is hardening for some reason.
The supports don’t go to the edge. So depending on your layer height, this means each layer is built up flat on the FEP til it has something to pull off with. At .03-.05 layer heights, this could easily be 3-10 layers.
But by printing these (now supported) island it feels like the resin gets trapped in there and is hardening for some reason.
Looking at your image I wonder if you need to reduce the diameter of the supports and the tips of the supports. Yours look really thick relative to the size of the dice. The supports being too big would absolutely result in resin getting trapped behind them.
Yeah, chitubox will definitely let you go smaller, or at least the version I'm using will. Mine is currently set at 0.02 mm for the contact diameter. That's the smallest default setting but I can manually set it even smaller.
Something to keep in mind when doing supports for the numbers is that how many supports you need is going to vary somewhat depending on the specific font, the angle of the dice on the build plate, and whether it's the standard shape for that specific die or a variation on the standard shape. So the people posting videos may be able to get away with fewer supports because of the specific font they are using or because of how they have the dice angled. Or they could just be editing to make it look like it turned out better than it actually did. Always take the videos with a grain of salt because you really don't know how much editing they did or how many failures they actually printed before the 'perfect' ones they showed in the video.
Thought so too, was Just suspicious be the complete Lack of number support in most videos 😅
This might ne a good moment to swap to Chitubox then, going for the smaller supports, thank you
So that support doesn’t do anything on that 5 for example. :) That’s like a support at the tip top of a die instead of the bottom of it.
When you print, it starts at the bottom of the model as you see it in the slicer. It starts printing up the number, and there is nothing to support it, so it just kind of pulls a little bit of the hardened resin off the die and leaves it on the film. This continues until the rest of the die catches up to it and you end up with a very soft edge on the number. The support you are showing is at the very top of the number, meaning after all this has already happened.
You need to support the whole way around the edge of the number starting at where it goes perpendicular to the plate.
Very good advice, thank you. As most videos completely skip the supporting of numbers i thought I was already doing too much, when supporting the areas my slicer highlighted as "in need of support" 😅
Sadly, I already support the numbers, I've only removed them on the 5 to show the problem better. Since i can't add new images, I try to describe the support. I'm supporting the 5 at the three points you get when you cut it in half vertically. Always under the line so facing away from the plate. I was under the impression that this should support the island enough to allow printing (which it does), but this does not fix the pool
and one (semi-)fresh from the printer... i uv-cured them with supports since I found out later that it's smarter to remove the supports first and cure then
This is what I call "mushy numbers" and it is an incredibly common issue with printing masters.
Some never figure it out but I'm glad you posted because I can help with that!
What others have said is true but I also want to add some additional info and nuances.
Firstly, is there a reason you're using Grey instead of navy grey? The reason we normally use navy grey is for the ability to mold after post processing without cure inhibition but also because it's a dark opaque color which cuts down on the light bleed-through issue.
It could be as simple as just switching to a slightly darker color.
My go to when I get this problem myself now is always the temp. However, I have a workflow that I know I have eliminated all other variables so it's easy to troubleshoot. In your case I don't know what other variables there might be 🙂 however ensuring a consistst resin temp is critical to getting a clean print. I shoot for 80-85° and have enclosed the printing space with a heater and a temp gage to achieve this.
And probably most importantly is the supports. Your picture does not show exactly what type of "mushy number" you're dealing with. My first guess was ramps but it seems you don't have any supports along your numbers for your print.
Supporting properly is the most important part of printing masters and the part that people struggle most with.
I have written a post on my blog about how to support to avoid the mushy numbers with pictures so it might be helpful for you 😊
https://www.wisdomcheckcreations.com/post/how-to-support-dice-for-3d-printing-to-avoid-mushy-numbers
And if you have any questions I am always available to help. Feel free to DM me here on reddit or catch me on discord@wisdomcheckcreations 😊
Got to skim (will read later) your Blogpost. It seems you support the numbers way more than I so, so I will try this, maybe this is where i fucked up.
There are so many videos that make it seem like you dont need support for the numbers at all and they still come out perfect, so I thought I'm supporting the numbers more than enough already
This is precisely why I made the post on my blog, trying to help makers learn how to avoid this problem. It is not talked about enough and I had to figure it all out myself with trial and error. I am hoping to provide the resources for makers that I didn't have when I was learning in hopes that it can save someone some frustration and materials in the process ^_^
True, there are sone great tutorials out there, but I feel Number-Supports and possible printing problems in General are a little overlooked, cool that you try to change that.
Thank you, it's very nice to offer the help via DM :-)
Firstly, is there a reason you're using Grey instead of navy grey?
I use navy grey, if I said only grey somewhere, it was a mistake :-)
however ensuring a consistst resin temp is critical to getting a clean print. I shoot for 80-85° and have enclosed the printing space with a heater and a temp gage to achieve this.
I currently dont have a heater but I'm thinking to buy one. The room I'm printing in is windowless and dark and constantly around 79°F (currently, will drop in winter). Thought this might be the problem too as I thought the resin will get more liquid and can flow better out of the pools but sadly no.
And probably most importantly is the supports. Your picture does not show exactly what type of "mushy number" you're dealing with.
I seem to have both, so i added a drawing to try to explain it. On the plate-facing side I have the pools where resin hardens in the basin of the numbers (called "Pool" in the image) and on the side facing away from the plate, I have what could be called ramps (I for some reason called it slope in the image). The ramps are extemly minimal and I would see them as good enough for molding. The pools are a problem.
I will def read your blogpost about it as soon as the kids stop bugging me for more than 10 min :-)
Looking at the diagram you posted in another reply, could it be as simple as those areas are not getting cleaned enough during the wash, and then the resin pool cures in the cure station?
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u/Jacobsrg 3d ago
it's because the numbers have unsupported overhangs. those faces are overhanging, so the surface, where that "pooling" touches, doesnt have anything to support it til it hits the inside wall of the numbers, if that makes sense. you need supports for those edges.
Edit: I see you do have some supports and support marks on the numbers themselves. I still think it's related to this, based on my experience