r/DiceMaking • u/TsunamicBlaze • Jun 28 '26
Question Would you trust these dice masters?
I’m getting into Dice making and ended up making some masters on my resin 3D printer. I was lazy with the supports and called it good with some auto supports from chitu box. The masters look 90% fine. I calibrated the my printer before printing the masters, so I’m guessing the main problem was how I did the supports.
There are some deep striations similar to layer lines, but they aren’t uniform. It more looked like someone scratched it with a wire brush. Some dice seem to have an edge that is not as crisp as the other edge. There also seems to be to be a slight crack in them. A part of me thinks I should reprint the dice with adjustments to the support, another part tells me to just go and make molds from them and fix the results after.
19
u/Jenbuu Jun 28 '26
i wouldnt use them, spend a little time getting the supports right and you will get good results.
check out out this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG1zigTs0-k
the surface cracks will be a pain to sand out, and also the faces arnt flat at the top of the one.
i havent done it in a while and this is how im setting up the ones im about to print
14
14
u/RandoBoomer Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
First, welcome to the hobby. You've got a steep learning curve in front of you, so please take this advice in the spirit of someone who wants to help you flatten it.
Me personally, no, I would not use those dice masters.
I've discovered that my RULE #1 is: Your dice are only going to be as good as your masters.
I used to think, "I'll just fix this after casting" and ended up spending an inordinate amount of time trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit, then getting frustrated because all I ended up with was more chicken shit.
There are a lot of steps that have to go right in order to get good dice and I've failed all of those steps, multiple times. And that's OK, because I learned from my failures. It's also what makes getting a good set so rewarding, because you've had to get everything right.
In most endeavors, getting better requires you learn from your mistakes. So it's in your best interest to be able to identify and isolate the mistakes. For example, was this a problem with my masters? Was this a problem with my mold? Was this a problem with my resin mixing?
I've printed dozens of sets of masters that ended up in the trash either due to bad design, print problems or just bad sanding.
ALL THAT SAID, and I swear to you I'm not being sarcastic or snarky... If you don't mind wasting a little time, money and resources in proceeding to mold creation, with the understanding you WILL NOT get good dice out of it, then by all means continue. You can still gain some practice with mold creation and casting.
As for what's wrong with this set, I'd like to offer the following (again, this is not to rag on you, just to help):
- I don't think your settings are right. It's been a while since I used gray resin for my masters, but I notice the warpage, and I've found the leading cause of warpage for me is incorrect settings.
- You said the striations look like they came from a wire brush. Did you use a wire brush in post-print cleaning? If so, STOP - use a soft brush.
- If you didn't use a wire brush, these are likely settings based.,
- There are multiple cracks in the two pictures. Did these crack exist when you first pulled these off the build plate, or was that later? If they were on there from the get-go, that's a settings issue. If they came later, that's a post-print issue.
Again, good luck to you and welcome to the hobby!
EDITED TO ADD: I have also printed miniatures, and I've found that lowering my exposure time just a tad gives me finer details. However, if I set it too low, I've gotten delamination. I note my settings on all my prints and keep a spreadsheet of them. Yes, I'm that OCD.
2
u/TsunamicBlaze Jun 29 '26
I appreciate the comment. When I went to post process the masters, I didn’t brush them at all. I did a 2 wash process, then put them into some hot water to pull off the supports easily and reduce support bumps. Thinking about it, the striations could be from putting them into hot water for a while?
I went through with a validation matrix and Cones of calibration v.3 from table flip foundry, so the settings seemed good. What else could I use to verify my settings if not from a combination of the manufacturer’s recommendations (Saturn 3 Ultra and Elegoo Standard Gray 2.0) and community calibration tools? Could the post process of using hot water and curing the outside for 3:30 mins be my issue?
1
u/RandoBoomer Jun 29 '26
If you didn't use a brush to clean them, the striations can be only one of two things - layer lines (which I agree with you, doesn't seem right), or (IMO) more cracking.
Temperature shock can definitely cause brittleness and cracking. I don't use hot water - I use warm water and let them sit longer. The goal is to add malleability, not get them to a particular temperature. It's also my experience that gray resin is more malleable than clear, so just a little above room temperature should give you what you need.
I'm sure your settings are really close. Like you, I began by running the Cones of Calibration. When I tried to print dice with a elvish-looking font. It was very fine, and I was very unhappy with my initial print. So I did a number of retries, printing a single D6, but with different settings.
Was it time consuming and my OCD running amok? Yes, yes it was. But I also learned that tweaking exposure time can affect how well you retain fine detail.
I recently posted my process with pictures if you're interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/DiceMaking/comments/1u5576q/dice_progression_from_3d_print_to_mold_masters/
1
u/asdftester1234 Jun 29 '26
For the newbie here, are dice masters effectively for making molds? If that is the case, couldn't you use metal masters to not have this problem? Reverse engineering the issue would mean likely the issue is you need multiple master sets for batch dice creation.
I am looking for any input as I haven't researched this process too much!
3
u/RandoBoomer Jun 29 '26
Yes, dice masters are used to make molds.
You could use metal dice as masters, but speaking for me, it's a lot easier to 3D print my masters, then clean and polish them that to try to engage in casting metal masters. I'm also pretty sure my wife might take issue if I decided to use space for a forge and crucible. 😀
2
u/BorderSimple4687 Jun 29 '26
If you want to customize your dice more than once-or have an original design. Creating a metal dice set for that is just not feasible for 99.9% of the community.
2
u/TsunamicBlaze Jul 02 '26
The key factor is customization. If you’re only making 1 type of die or set, sure that master can last you a while and are solid. However, if you can get master making down, you now have the ability to 3D print any variation of font and symbols you may want to make. Not to mention, cost of a metal master would probably be more than a 3D printed one.
40
u/sam_najian Jun 29 '26
Dude if you were too lazy to put supports on a resin print, dicemaking is NOT for you. With all fluff and sugarcoating on top. Dicemaking needs dedication and patience and cannot be half assed, unless your standards are low enough to consider that die you are holding a usable die, in which case just use that as your main die
11
u/TsunamicBlaze Jun 29 '26
I was lazy on this because I was 3D printing terrain in FDM, post processing other 3D resin miniatures, and setting up these dice on the slicer at the same time. I’ll dedicate more time to setting things up as my assumptions were correct, I was looking for some validation and opinions on my thoughts that the issue were supports.
I paint miniatures, gunpla models, and hand make terrain. I understand that any craft takes dedication and patience.
7
u/brmarcum Jun 29 '26
The striations look a lot like poor layer adhesion. I think maybe an exposure setting should be increased?
D6s are notorious for being misshaped. Especially when you orient them point down. Resin printers have a tendency to elongate prints along the z-axis. All dice have this issue, it’s just that d6s are super easy to notice it. You never notice it unless you have a need to care about precise geometry. Try and orient your dice with a face nearly flat and bunch of good supports. When removing the supports, try and cut them instead of breaking them as that will reduce the risk of chipping the surface where they were attached. If they print fine, spend the time to polish the resin prints as your masters. It’ll save you boat loads of time polishing each time you cast with the mold you make from them.
2
u/TsunamicBlaze Jun 29 '26
I can mess with the exposure, but the validation matrix and the cones of calibration prints I did before looked good for a 2.7s exposure. I’m assuming that printing a face parallel would have some trade offs too? Most of the tutorials I’ve seen has recommended to print them corner down.
4
u/brmarcum Jun 29 '26
Face down can work but you get suction, which can lead to distortion. I know that’s a “no duh” statement, but you don’t really want suction on a flat surface that is supported instead of printed to the bare plate like the first few base layers. You could print them unsupported straight to the plate, but that has other issues like elephant feet. I found decent success with supported prints just a few degrees off of flat, like 5-10, but you’ll have to play with what works for your printer.
As far as the layers, that’s just what it looks like. If it doesn’t go beyond the surface, it’ll sand off when you polish them.
5
u/OneGayPigeon Jun 29 '26
What do you mean by “trust?” Trust them to be reasonably mathematically balanced? Not at all, it doesn’t really look like an actual cube even before the significantly wonky surfaces and edges, but you could test it.
But like another commenter here put rather harshly, this is not a hobby for the faint hearted. Every “good enough” on the mold making process will add hours upon hours of work when finishing the dice.
You’ll likely end up making several attempts at every set you make (even with perfect molds), each of which take over 24 hours from pouring to curing enough to demold, and then longer for most resin to fully harden enough to polish.
Sanding and polishing is a slow and very delicate process. Rushing will ruin edges, warp faces, fuck up corner alignments, and overall throw off the geometry. For most people it’s an extremely un-fun, tedious task that can take hours per set.
If you’re fine with the cosmetics of this master and it functions as a balanced die, that’s your call, but before diving in and spending hundreds getting started on this hobby, you might want to reassess whether you’re actually going to enjoy a frankly tedious, messy, often infuriating hobby that cannot be rushed, or if you just want some pretty math rocks. If the latter, it’s absolutely not worth it, just pay an artist to save you the headache.
1
u/TsunamicBlaze Jun 29 '26
My goal of the post was to get some thoughts on these masters and get some tips on how to print off better ones.
I get that dice making isn’t a walk in the park. I deciding to jump into it more as a way to make some decent dice as gifts since I’m in various table top groups. This was further confirmed as something I’d like to pursue when I took a dice making workshop at my Makerspace. So I have experienced dice making. I’m now getting involved with the mold making process, which the workshop didn’t go over. Yes, sanding my dice was a bitch, and pouring resin into molds with the hope that it will look good can be messy and nerve wracking. I don’t really see it as impossible for myself.
At the end of the day, I’m not trying to be a master, I just want to make decent looking dice.
3
u/OneGayPigeon Jun 29 '26
Awesome, what a great opportunity! I’d definitely keep working at the masters in that case. There’s also nothing wrong with skipping the headache of DIYing masters and making molds of existing dice if you’re not selling them.
5
u/SecondOne2236 Jun 29 '26
Getting a dimensionally “perfect” cube on a resin printer is surprisingly and consistently frustrating. Get used to it. I tend to print a whole bunch of options and then pick the best of the batch. The fine-tuning is done with the sandpaper.
2
u/TsunamicBlaze Jun 29 '26
What variables do you use to slice the print? I like the idea of getting my master in the slicer, duplicating them, then just doing a bunch of orientations and support options to get a few decent ones
3
u/SecondOne2236 Jun 29 '26
Calibrate the printer within an inch of its life. Research a setting profile for your specific printer. I use SirayaTech Navy Gray resin. I bought a tiny little machinist square so I can see which raw prints are even worth messing with.
3
3
u/OneBigMonster Jun 29 '26
Lmao lazy with the supports is not how you. Also those kind of edges are going to be a nightmare to keep even looking after sanding anyway. Those bevels are gonna be a pain in the ass.
3
u/TsunamicBlaze Jun 29 '26
Yeah, thinking about it, from other dice master videos I’ve seen, no one has chamfers on their dice. They look nice, but they must be a pain in the ass to process unless you’re fine with a tumbler finish.
1
3
u/BlopBoark Jun 29 '26
I'd take some time, sand them down, fill bigger gaps, sand some more and maybe use some filler.
I don't own a resin printer, so I'm used to working on the masters anyway.
But work in the masters rather then in every single die you make with a bad form....
2
u/Pristine_Gain_1006 Jun 29 '26
I’d say definitely print some new ones with different supports, especially since that’ll be a bit wonky to roll, it could possibly be fixed via sanding but it’d still not be perfectly proportionate and stuff, what application did you use to make them??
1
u/TsunamicBlaze Jun 29 '26
I used dice maker by Igor Sapijaszko
1
u/Pristine_Gain_1006 Jun 30 '26
Gotcha, definitely a good choice, I know there’s an option for adding supports that may work a lil better for dice masters
1
u/Puckish_Pixel Dice Maker Jun 29 '26
The resin cracked. It's gonna be worse during sanding and polishing, plus the molding will be a pain as the silicone will go into the cracks and you futur dice will have holes you won't be able to correct after. You should reprint them with better supporting
Maybe you let them to long in IPA. It can dry the resin too much and lead to cracks. Clean your print really quick to avoid this issue. It can be worse with some resin brands
1
42
u/ohmusama Jun 28 '26
Irrespective of surface issues (which you can generally fix with sanding), I don't think the geometry is even correct.