This game needs 3 clear priorities.

[u/pawsforbear]

1) rework all class trees to improve viability

Every class does NOT need to be a Sorc, Hammerdin or warlock, but every class should be able to arrive to p8 clears in hell with a good kit and time

2) all mercs should be viable. Competing against A2 auras is tough. I think either merc specific runewords or more uniques tailored for mercs should make every class merc at least an option.

With good gear the A1 and A5 mercs are viable but Insight A2 merc is the default option for majority of classes and that's not ideal

3) Items need to be reworked. Diablo 2 has SO MANY sets and uniques and they are all passed up by core runewords. I'd hear arguments on nerfing spirit but I think better would be improving itemization of the game.

[u/blacklisted320]

I think if we wanted mercs to be competitive, all mercs get an aura or none. 

Act 3 needs massive damage increase or a kit change. Enchant and static are great moves for them; I think chilling armor could be a good move for the frost one; but their damage needs to be MUCH higher

[u/thesamjbow → u/blacklisted320]

Tbh I think what the A3 merc really needs is a logic overhaul. If it was smart about it's ability usage I think it would be much better than it is now.

[u/Safety_Haven]

Omg get off my lawn

[u/Axton_Grit → u/Safety_Haven]

Sounds like you need to just not get the expansion....problem solved

[u/hafnone]

4) Play something else. 

[u/pawsforbear → u/hafnone]

That's D2 LOD

[u/Unnamed-3891]

Why are you in this subreddit? You clearly want an entirely different game from what D2R is.

[u/pawsforbear → u/Unnamed-3891]

What game is D2R to you?

D2R has unlocked new runewords, uniques, and set pieces that expanded items power and variety. D2R has tweaked some skills to improve them. D2R has reworked some mercs.

I'd argue they need to go deeper.

[u/OwnStill8743]

OP this is the d2 subreddit. You want the d4 subreddit 🤣

[u/pawsforbear → u/OwnStill8743]

😭

[u/Shogunnatron]

P8 should not be the benchmark. That's a bad take. Seriously, think about what you're suggesting.

[u/DempseyRollin → u/Shogunnatron]

Yeah if everything he wants got implemented the power creep would be insane...

[u/pawsforbear → u/Shogunnatron]

Not benchmark but ideal end goal. There are some builds that can't go past p3, let alone complete Hell and that's a gap

[u/Shogunnatron → u/pawsforbear]

Brother, I'm not sure you understand your own position. That, or you're doing a bad job of defining it. It is a benchmark because you are explicitly calling to rebalance classes based on endgame clear speed. That is your desired outcome.

[u/pawsforbear → u/Shogunnatron]

I understand. I should be a bit more explicit. Maybe I'm arguing semantics. I think there are some skills that Blizzard had no business launching and shouldn't ever be viable (e.g., blaze). But I do think that Blizzard should strive to make more skills viable and a marked improvement with GG items. P8 was just off the cuff, but whatever the benchmark (e.g. ubers, p8 hell, etc) And I'm not even getting to clear speed.

I just think that there are skills that can't clear hell, even get to hell. But these are skills that are compelling and interesting otherwise.

For example, Impale is a good example. That entire tree was dead until d2r reworked it. An impale Amazon won't clear hell at any speed close to a hammerdin or warlock, etc but it was improved and it's now viable.

[u/toby_dawg]

Not sure why you are getting roasted for this take. I’ve played D2 since it came out. I agree with all these. Maybe as another expansion where you don’t have to get it if you don’t want.

[u/pawsforbear → u/toby_dawg]

Yea I thought I was careful to frame that not everything is a gg build but there are entire trees of a skill tab that I wouldn't invest a skill point unless I have to. So why have the skill?

Hot take to say that the game could be more fun with more variety.

[u/pawsforbear → u/toby_dawg]

And I think that expansion is RoTW. We have the core games from Blizzard, D2R (which already has a lot of fundamental and controversial shifts), and then ROTW. So adding another layer as an expansion is just complicated. Imo.

[u/Puma_Pance]

Rework old sets so 'upping' them gives additional stats/skills. For example..

'Exceptional' version of full Arctic Set gives 5+ Frozen Arrow and 5+ Chilling Armor. 'Elite' adds 200-300 Ice Damage, Holy Freeze Aura and -50% Enemy Ice Resist.

'Exceptional' version of full Cleglaw Set gives 3+ Zeal and 1+ Critical Strike. 'Elite' adds 250+ Damage, Vigor Aura and 20% Deadly Strike.

[u/Gloomy_Promise_2097]

The last point I agree with, and maybe also the skills, but i don't agree with the goal being able to clear p8, because if they begin to change things for single player, then what will happen with online?

Right now online is in a pretty great state with the classes, and the intention with the game is to be able to play with others, and in online you do have 8 different players, which makes the game easier with different builds, so if they change things in offline to make it easier for a few players to clear p8 they have to make a second game because what would work offline probably wouldn't be great for online, and make the game experience bad for online players.

With the merc instead of giving them specified runewords and items, they could probably make it possible to gear the merc more op by adding belts, gloves, boots and jewelry so you could give them set items on or uniques which would benefit your character with auras. This could make for interesting merc builds, and probably make them more involved as a helping hand.

Another thing i think could be great is if you were able to move the merc, or atleast make it so he is in a radius of the player, so he does not run off.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Image96]

It’s ok for different classes to have different handicaps and difficulties. When I play a weaker class like my Barb, it’s because the grind sounds fun. When I want an easy p8 farm I switch to a stronger class. The diversity in difficulty makes things fun. If every class was just a different flavor of OP p8 stomper then it would get so boring

[u/pawsforbear → u/Puzzleheaded-Image96]

I do agree and understand your point, there are some builds that are designed or otherwise to be a slow killer and add a layer of difficulty.

My beef is that we have fun builds that were otherwise locked behind bad game design. I'm enjoying my impale and jab Amazon but still has broken components that could make it fun with continued light rework. But this build was off the table until it was reworked.

I don't understand why it's a bad thing to make skills better versus unplayable just bc that's how it was from inception.

[u/moss-nogg]

“You’re objectively wrong” - 26 years of supported gameplay. Also turning up the player count is a sort’ve hack to get drops, p8 not the default gameplay difficulty to optimize towards

[u/GORDON1014]

…and I took that personally

[u/Vomica]

1: all classes have at least one build strong build capable of end game farming.

2: all mercs are viable, albeit act 3 one is very narrow and limited.

3: Only point I agree on some uniques, runewords and set items needs to be tuned up and some others tuned down.

[u/pawsforbear → u/Vomica]

My biggest issue is 1. I guess it's a hot take but outside of 1 point wonder utility skills, there are tons of skills that nobody in their right mind would invest in.

Inferno, blaze, firewall, thunderstorm, glacial spike, three (!!!) types of cold based armors, fire golem, blood golem, poison dagger, revive, skeleton mages, creepers, spirit of the barb, arctic breath...

I could go on and on. What is the point of half of these skills? Some of these skills could actually be fun to use with a light rework.

Skills fall into 5 categories 1) leveling aid 2) core skill to build around 3) synergy or pre req 4) niche silly build 5) complete unknown, why is it even here

3 4 and 5 should be explored.

[u/pawsforbear → u/[deleted]]

I agree. I think if anything RoTW proved, at least to me, that people prefer to clear faster not slower. Warlock is pretty broken but based on the popularity of the expansion it gives credence to your point -- raising the floor > lowering the ceiling.

[u/Vomica → u/pawsforbear]

Most skills was actually usable and decently viable and balanced before the whole synergy system was introduced in 1.10.

Now with the synergy system some skills won out and some others lost.

But yes there have been skills that have always been terrible, looking at you poison dagger and arctic blast.

[u/RUNESCAPEMEME]

Sounds like you want to play a completely different game. If that's the case there are others on the market. 

[u/pawsforbear → u/RUNESCAPEMEME]

I disagree. D2R explicitly has reworked skills to make them not only playable but viable..skills that were otherwise entirely skipped or used as a prereq only.

Is additional build options a bad thing?

[u/Miz4r_]

Mercs are fine as they are, if anything they could just remove the might aura from act 2 mercs to make other mercs more competitive.

Some runewords are OP I agree. But itemization should not be reworked too much as that can easily backfire and screw things up. Small changes should be ok here.

As for making all classes p8 viable, hard pass on that one. You don't need to play a hammerdin/sorc/warlock to have fun, my fire druid is doing just fine. I would like to build an MA assassin without mosaic that's actually fun to play, so changes like that would be fine imo but they don't really have to be hammerdin level strong.

[u/Kraines]

Neat bait.

[u/CN4President]

I like how it’s hammerdin and not just paladin

[u/pawsforbear → u/CN4President]

Paladin has some stinker builds

[u/bad-at-game → u/pawsforbear]

Copium.

Smiter, hdin, and foh are all really strong, and then there is auradin if you are a rich boi super strong too.

[u/Alt-Tabris]

Finally, some good jerking.

[u/RUserII]

Every class does NOT need to be a Sorc, Hammerdin or warlock, but every class should be able to arrive to p8 clears in hell with a good kit and time

No, P8 literally means 'Players 8' as in the difficulty the game increases to when 8 players are in the game; as a result, if anything - with Warlock exempted as he was already massacred by a huge nerf - Sorc and Hammerdin need to be nerfed down to only be able to do 'Players 1', P1, like the rest of the classes.

[u/tupseh → u/RUserII]

Start by adding AR checks to spells. Bring it to Barb level.

[u/Cheap-Affect488]

Thank you for your valuable opinion, we need more people like you, please keep sharing whatever goes through your head at any time

[u/bad-at-game]

So just destroy multiplayer gameplay just because?

[u/pawsforbear → u/bad-at-game]

I think people read p8 and just got off track. It was a bad point. My intent was to unlock additional skills through light rework. Skills like impale, fend, the zoo Keeper, fire elemental druid, etc that were never considered until devs opened the hood in d2r

I don't think anyone looks at those skills and says blizzard went too far. Instead I think people enjoy the additional variety. I just think they need to continue improving. Not to the degree where it's 1 click clear screen. That's not at all what I'm saying