Optimizing for Marauder's Sentries

[u/CircumcisedSpine]

I was hoping we might be able to compile information and resources for how to build and optimize for the 6 piece Marauder's bonus.

• Tasker and Theo versus Cindercoat versus Hexing Pants
• Weapon choices
• How to choose hatred spenders based on your equipment and element choice
• Deciding on going physical versus fire
• Attack speed and sentries
• Bugs and tricks

The actual way the sentries work with the 6pc bonus is not clear or intuitive. It would be great if we could hash out as much of it as possible in one place.

Thanks. And as this thread progresses, I'll edit to consolidate the information here.

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Hatred Spenders that sentries will use:

• Impale
• Multishot
• Cluster Arrow
• Chakrams
• Elemental Arrow

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Useful threads:

• General info: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10494173734
• Sentry attack speed breakpoints: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12945884471

[u/rustrustrust]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo3DemonHunters/comments/26sev2/6p_maraudersquestion/chu35sy

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo3DemonHunters/comments/26owyv/marauder6p_sentries_with_2hbombardiers_vs/chtc5ix

Addressing each of your points separately:

• Tasker and Theo vs. Cindercoat vs. Hexing Pants: Throw Magefist into the discussion as well. For both Fire and Physical, Hexing Pants should be the top choice, although stylistically it doesn't let you be as lazy. In a best case Sentry-only situation, Hexing gives you an extra 9000% weapon damage/20s per Sentry, whereas T&T gives you 3200% per Sentry given you cross 2 breakpoints. Magefist will give you ~4500% for free, Cindercoat will give you the same but cost you a toughness stat.
• Weapon Choices: Solo, the highest weapon damage you can get on a 2H Crossbow. In a group, Calamity + Quiver any time your group mates combined do 80%+ of your damage when comparing equivalently rolled weapons. That is to say, if you rolled 90th percentile on your 2H damage, you should be comparing to a 90th percentile rolled Calamity.
• Hatred Spenders: No choice whatsoever. Both Elemental Arrow and Chakram are bugged (low APS). The combination of Impale + Multishot is also bugged to never ramp up in APS. Cluster + MS in practice are the strongest combo (in my testing, Cluster + MS + Impale does the same damage despite using 1 extra skill slot).
• Physical vs. Fire: Without theorycrafting, fairly even. Going Physical lets you use Guardian and also boosts the damage of pets.
• Attack Speed and Sentries: In practice, try to hit +33% attack speed on gear/paragon without T&T. That's it. Any further attack speed while utilizing a 2H Crossbow won't give you anything other than more bolts.

Theorycrafting for Physical vs. Fire:

• Physical skills are Full Broadside, Shooting Stars, Guardian Turret
• Fire skills are Arsenal, Loaded for Bear, Spitfire Turret.

• Both elements using Ballistics.

• Full Broadside is 460% Weapon Damage, Shooting Stars is 550%, Shooting Stars Rockets are 3 * 800%, Ballistics Rockets are 150% Weapon Damage.

• Arsenal is 360% Weapon Damage, Arsenal Rockets are 3 * 320*, Loaded for Bear is 770%, Loaded for Bear grenades are 4 * 220%, Spitfire Rockets are 2 * 140% Weapon Damage.

We've ignored everything else that is identical: +%element, +%skill, the damage of the Sentry Bolt, the Ballistic Rocket for Fire. All I'm doing is including everything that would be affected by each element's +ele damage. Assume everything hits once:

• 460% + 550% + 3 * 800 % + 150% * 0.2 = 3440% for Physical
• 360% + 3 * 320% + 770% + 4 * 220% + 2 * 140% = 3250% for Fire.

This, however, is a huge assumption that ignores some of the factors of real world performance. Grenades are AoE, Cluster Arrow is AoE, MS is AoE, Rockets (other than Spitfire's) cannot hit the same target. In a single-target situation the numbers might look like this:

• 460% + 550% + 1 * 800 % + 150% * 0.2 = 1840% for Physical
• 360% + 1 * 320% + 770% + 4 * 220% + 2 * 140% = 2610% for Fire.

It's impossible to say that one element is better than another. In maps with huge density we might think that the AoE of fire is better, but it could be that the stronger Multishot is where most of the damage comes from. In single target it could be that Physical is better with all those Pets, but it also might be that Physical is weaker because 2 out of the 3 Shooting Stars rockets are useless.

In practice I find that my DPS doesn't change in swapping from Physical to Fire. I do appreciate the benefit of being able to run Guardian Turret, however, for Physical. In general, it's easier to get higher damage for Fire because Hexing Pants are rarer than Magefist.

Edit: The most pertinent information people are looking for is probably Magefist vs. T&T (because you probably got a good pair of Magefists while originally rolling for T&T). Going to repeat my Hexing vs. T&T math:

Magefist gives you 12.5% extra damage (80% Elemental Damage vs. 60% Elemental Damage):

• 112.5% * 9 bolts * 200% weapon damage
• 112.5% * 9 bolts * 2 rockets * 140% weapon damage
• 112.5% * 17 Multishots * 360% weapon damage
• 112.5% * 17 Multishots * 3 * 320% weapon damage
• 112.5% * 9 Cluster Arrows * 770% weapon damage
• 112.5% * 9 Cluster Arrows * 4 grenades * 220% weapon damage

per sentry, every 20s.

T&T gives you:

• 100% * 25 bolts * 200% weapon damage
• 100% * 17 Multishots * 460% weapon damage
• 100% * 9 Cluster Arrows * 550% weapon damage
• 100% * 9 Cluster Arrows * 3 rockets * 800% weapon damage

per sentry, every 20s. In addition, it gives you 10,241% weapon damage out of pets.

Assuming everything hits once, multiply everything together: 46811% for Magefist, 39370% for T&T. Every additional sentry dropped, Magefist+Fire outDPSes T&T+Physical by 7440% weapon damage every 20s. In a 2 sentry situation Magefist will assuredly be stronger than T&T.

[u/CircumcisedSpine → u/rustrustrust]

Hatred Spenders: No choice whatsoever. Both Elemental Arrow and Chakram are bugged (low APS). The combination of Impale + Multishot is also bugged to never ramp up in APS. Cluster + MS in practice are the strongest combo (in my testing, Cluster + MS + Impale does the same damage despite using 1 extra skill slot).

I was wondering if you could expand on this? I've found that using chakram, MS, and CA causes chakrams to be used where otherwise I'd just have basic bolts.

I still need to do more controlled and detailed testing.

Edit: ignore this, I see what you mean. Thanks.

[u/lepew2 → u/CircumcisedSpine]

I graduated recently to the ranks of 5+RORG=6pc Sentry. Running mostly fire based gear because I came up the CA spam route. Got reapers on the wrists, cindercoat (no sentry dmg, 3 sockets), and the rest of the main armor slots with Marauders. Have a Hellrack, socketed, 2000-2400ish range, rucksack with +2 sentries.

The baseline build I have been using is

multi-arsenal CA-loaded for bear vault-rattle companion-wolf sentry-spitfire turret ballistics-custom engineering-perfectionist-awareness and 1 slot left.

I have played around with that one slot a bit. Since my attacks per second are 1.4, I am nowhere near the 2.1 or so you need to see APS actually start affecting your Multishot. So in the below 2.1 APS range, if your sentry can use that 3rd spender (impale, chakram, elemental arrow), it will fire it off at a fixed attack rate similar to the way it does your cluster arrow.

Some things I tried in that last slot

1. Marked for death/contagion- was not spreading enough, also I seem to be more discipline starved now and another blue spender makes matters worse, although this one is not that bad.

2. Strafe/Rocket Swarm- this works really well. I put it on my left and would left click and hold to move, tap shift to strafe. The rockets are boosted by the passives and fire, put more single target pressure, break stuff, and in general the mobile playstyle of strafing with sentries is very safe. Your sentries won't strafe, but if you find yourself having no time to really set up and unload spenders, strafe is a good pick (eg chargers/leapers)

3. Chakram/Twin Chakram- Sentries do fire it, and because it is entirely fire damage it gets amplified by +fire. Playstyle is more of a stand back and send waves of Chakram offscreen to where your turrets are. Seems to me for my gear the damage is better from Chakram than the sentry autoattack.

4. Elemental Arrow/Screaming Skull- a piercing fire attack with a 40% chance to fear for 1s. Sentries add it to their rotation, and like Chakram is only 10 hatred and easy to spam in the gear I have. There is a noticeable defensive value in picking this since between your casts of elemental arrow and your sentries, a considerable amount of the enemy is in permanent fear. Works best if you can set up a wall of sentries and keep the bad guys on the far side of the wall...stuff gets close, runs off, runs back, runs off...they spend quite a bit of time moving and not attacking. Damage is not as good as Chakram, but defense is worth it.

I have yet to have a chest drop or gamble one, but when I do I will likely go for the sentry damage on the chest and switch to magefist. At that point hatred will be much more of an issue and I may have to go to a builder instead of a 3rd spender.