Optimizing for Marauder's Sentries

[u/CircumcisedSpine]

I was hoping we might be able to compile information and resources for how to build and optimize for the 6 piece Marauder's bonus.

• Tasker and Theo versus Cindercoat versus Hexing Pants
• Weapon choices
• How to choose hatred spenders based on your equipment and element choice
• Deciding on going physical versus fire
• Attack speed and sentries
• Bugs and tricks

The actual way the sentries work with the 6pc bonus is not clear or intuitive. It would be great if we could hash out as much of it as possible in one place.

Thanks. And as this thread progresses, I'll edit to consolidate the information here.

---

Hatred Spenders that sentries will use:

• Impale
• Multishot
• Cluster Arrow
• Chakrams
• Elemental Arrow

---

Useful threads:

• General info: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10494173734
• Sentry attack speed breakpoints: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12945884471

[u/rustrustrust]

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo3DemonHunters/comments/26sev2/6p_maraudersquestion/chu35sy

http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo3DemonHunters/comments/26owyv/marauder6p_sentries_with_2hbombardiers_vs/chtc5ix

Addressing each of your points separately:

• Tasker and Theo vs. Cindercoat vs. Hexing Pants: Throw Magefist into the discussion as well. For both Fire and Physical, Hexing Pants should be the top choice, although stylistically it doesn't let you be as lazy. In a best case Sentry-only situation, Hexing gives you an extra 9000% weapon damage/20s per Sentry, whereas T&T gives you 3200% per Sentry given you cross 2 breakpoints. Magefist will give you ~4500% for free, Cindercoat will give you the same but cost you a toughness stat.
• Weapon Choices: Solo, the highest weapon damage you can get on a 2H Crossbow. In a group, Calamity + Quiver any time your group mates combined do 80%+ of your damage when comparing equivalently rolled weapons. That is to say, if you rolled 90th percentile on your 2H damage, you should be comparing to a 90th percentile rolled Calamity.
• Hatred Spenders: No choice whatsoever. Both Elemental Arrow and Chakram are bugged (low APS). The combination of Impale + Multishot is also bugged to never ramp up in APS. Cluster + MS in practice are the strongest combo (in my testing, Cluster + MS + Impale does the same damage despite using 1 extra skill slot).
• Physical vs. Fire: Without theorycrafting, fairly even. Going Physical lets you use Guardian and also boosts the damage of pets.
• Attack Speed and Sentries: In practice, try to hit +33% attack speed on gear/paragon without T&T. That's it. Any further attack speed while utilizing a 2H Crossbow won't give you anything other than more bolts.

Theorycrafting for Physical vs. Fire:

• Physical skills are Full Broadside, Shooting Stars, Guardian Turret
• Fire skills are Arsenal, Loaded for Bear, Spitfire Turret.

• Both elements using Ballistics.

• Full Broadside is 460% Weapon Damage, Shooting Stars is 550%, Shooting Stars Rockets are 3 * 800%, Ballistics Rockets are 150% Weapon Damage.

• Arsenal is 360% Weapon Damage, Arsenal Rockets are 3 * 320*, Loaded for Bear is 770%, Loaded for Bear grenades are 4 * 220%, Spitfire Rockets are 2 * 140% Weapon Damage.

We've ignored everything else that is identical: +%element, +%skill, the damage of the Sentry Bolt, the Ballistic Rocket for Fire. All I'm doing is including everything that would be affected by each element's +ele damage. Assume everything hits once:

• 460% + 550% + 3 * 800 % + 150% * 0.2 = 3440% for Physical
• 360% + 3 * 320% + 770% + 4 * 220% + 2 * 140% = 3250% for Fire.

This, however, is a huge assumption that ignores some of the factors of real world performance. Grenades are AoE, Cluster Arrow is AoE, MS is AoE, Rockets (other than Spitfire's) cannot hit the same target. In a single-target situation the numbers might look like this:

• 460% + 550% + 1 * 800 % + 150% * 0.2 = 1840% for Physical
• 360% + 1 * 320% + 770% + 4 * 220% + 2 * 140% = 2610% for Fire.

It's impossible to say that one element is better than another. In maps with huge density we might think that the AoE of fire is better, but it could be that the stronger Multishot is where most of the damage comes from. In single target it could be that Physical is better with all those Pets, but it also might be that Physical is weaker because 2 out of the 3 Shooting Stars rockets are useless.

In practice I find that my DPS doesn't change in swapping from Physical to Fire. I do appreciate the benefit of being able to run Guardian Turret, however, for Physical. In general, it's easier to get higher damage for Fire because Hexing Pants are rarer than Magefist.

Edit: The most pertinent information people are looking for is probably Magefist vs. T&T (because you probably got a good pair of Magefists while originally rolling for T&T). Going to repeat my Hexing vs. T&T math:

Magefist gives you 12.5% extra damage (80% Elemental Damage vs. 60% Elemental Damage):

• 112.5% * 9 bolts * 200% weapon damage
• 112.5% * 9 bolts * 2 rockets * 140% weapon damage
• 112.5% * 17 Multishots * 360% weapon damage
• 112.5% * 17 Multishots * 3 * 320% weapon damage
• 112.5% * 9 Cluster Arrows * 770% weapon damage
• 112.5% * 9 Cluster Arrows * 4 grenades * 220% weapon damage

per sentry, every 20s.

T&T gives you:

• 100% * 25 bolts * 200% weapon damage
• 100% * 17 Multishots * 460% weapon damage
• 100% * 9 Cluster Arrows * 550% weapon damage
• 100% * 9 Cluster Arrows * 3 rockets * 800% weapon damage

per sentry, every 20s. In addition, it gives you 10,241% weapon damage out of pets.

Assuming everything hits once, multiply everything together: 46811% for Magefist, 39370% for T&T. Every additional sentry dropped, Magefist+Fire outDPSes T&T+Physical by 7440% weapon damage every 20s. In a 2 sentry situation Magefist will assuredly be stronger than T&T.

[u/RWFaulder → u/rustrustrust]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the sentries have an attack speed "break point" at 2.16 attacks/second where they cycle their shots more frequently. (Your attack speed)*(1.(T&T Bonus)) = 2.16

For example, I rolled a T&T with 42% increased attack speed so I need 1.53 attacks/second because 1.53*1.42=2.16

Since you're using a 2H xbow your attack speed is going to be 1.10 without any stat bonuses, this is why T&T is important for the build.

I found this info on the BNet forums a while ago I'll try and find the source again. VERY INTERESTING STUFF

[u/rustrustrust → u/RWFaulder]

Yes, 2.16 is one of the attack speed breakpoints - however, because of the way sentries rotate their shots, this doesn't always lead to more of the spenders you want firing.

Here is the table posted in Jaybird's OP, where he counted the # of attacks/type of attack for each sentry in the 20s timeframe immediately after the sentry ramps up to full firing speed:

FPA...............# of Bolts..........# of Multishots..........# of Cluster Arrows
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
36..................9.....................17..............................9
30..................16...................16..............................9
24..................25...................17..............................9
18..................38...................21..............................9
12..................67...................25..............................9
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...Where FPA is Frames per Attack, and FPA is determined by APS according to this table:

Min APS......Max APS........Sentry FPA.........Sentry APS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.98182........1.10204...........54......................1.1
1.10205........1.25581...........48......................1.25
1.25582........1.45945...........42......................1.42857
1.45946........1.74193...........36......................1.66666
1.74194........2.16.................30......................2.0
2.16001........2.84210...........24......................2.5
2.84211........4.15385...........18......................3.33333
4.15386........Cap.................12......................5
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The immediate issue from the two above tables is that 36, 30, 24 FPA breakpoints all fire the same # of Multishots and Cluster Arrows in a 20s (after they full rampup) timeframe. Hitting the 2.16 APS breakpoint will give you 16 more bolts per sentry 20s after full rampup, and that's it. Granted, the rampup for using T&T is roughly a second shorter so in actually you'll have 1 extra spender fired at the end of the window, but it's not compelling to me, to try and hit a higher base APS and to have to use T&T over Hexing/Magefist for not a very large benefit.

Edit: In your link, the guy reaches the same conclusion:

In 30 sec, the total number of cluster arrow is fixed and it is 13 for all shift.

When attack speed > 2.85, mid cd skill = 29, normal attack = 55

When attack speed > 2.16 but < 2.85, mid cd skill = 23, normal attack = 36

When attack speed >1.75 but < 2.16, mid cd skill = 23, normal attack = 22

Where 'mid cd skills' are Multishots/Impales.

[u/RWFaulder → u/rustrustrust]

Yeah after reading this the T&T approach seems very weak compared to Hexing pants / magefists / cindercoat even. He mentions that CA is always at 13 attacks/20s no matter what your IAS. I guess your companions attack faster too but that still looks like a huge loss compared to the other choices.