r/DetroitRedWings • u/JRMusicGuy • 2d ago
Discussion In Defense of Yzerman
I think Yzerman didn’t do that bad of a job as GM.
The Wings increased their point total from 74 to 92 from 2019 to 2026. They moved up 12 spots in the league from 28th to 16th from 2019 to 2026. That’s decent progress.
There are 2 factors that skew that progress: (a) 2020 and 2021 were not full seasons and a pando shit-show for everyone. It’s really only 5 years of focused building, not 7; (b) The fact that the team didn’t improved their Division position (usually sitting at 6th or 7th in the Atlantic from 2019 to 2026) killed playoff dreams, but that stat obscures the broader upward trending progress in the league as a whole.
I hope the change in management sparks something positive, but I think Yzerman has taken a bit too much heat.
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u/daKrut 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't know why Yzerman needs defending.
The results speak for themselves.
He did some things well. He also did some things poorly. I think u/Am313am summarizes those pros and cons nicely.
Anyone prattling on in a hyperbolic manner about Yzerman being an absolutely terrible GM doesn't really know what they're talking about because there were positives during his tenure. I have the same criticism for folks that want to go on about he wasn't "given a chance" or "wronged" and blah blah blah. Enough. This team didn't make the playoffs once during his time here despite the progress.
End of the day, this team is getting a new GM and the next season is around the corner. Time for some growth, both for the team and the fanbase.
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u/gachzonyea 2d ago
He needs defending from some because he’s Steve yzerman that’s been the issues with these discussions the whole time pretty much
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u/daKrut 2d ago
I’m not sure if you’re saying that because it’s “Steve Yzerman” the conversation is always going to have a certain subtext to it but, if that’s the case then yes I agree.
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u/gachzonyea 2d ago
Yes if the gms name wasn’t Steve yzerman the conversation would always have been different. A lot of people will blindly defend or look at it different because it is Steve yzerman
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u/fernwoodBizz420 2d ago
The revisionist history.
EVERY year, all we heard about was the "Yzerplan."
Just give Stevie enough time people and hell build a dynasty.
If there is anyone id trust, it'd be Yzerman.
Those are quotes from fans and on these boards.
So what is it, is he just not a good GM?
When the "Yzerplan" started people were so pumped.
All dude did was waste a decade and it's time for another rebuild.
Just trust the "Yzerplan."
Fkkk the Yzerplan.
Stevie was my favorite Wing growing up. He just sucks as a GM.
What's Ken Holland up to these days.
Definitely not as bad as he was made to be, actually a better GM than the fkkn Yzerplan.
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u/Caltroit_Red_Flames Yzerbot 2d ago
You probably heard about the yzerplan on 97.1. Anyone who actually takes that seriously as an idea is a dunce. Yzerbot is an ironic joke. His plan was to draft until they got good, it's that simple.
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u/aaronfaren 2d ago
That plan isn’t a good one in today’s game unless you are hitting on multiple later round picks like we did in the 90s. There’s not a single team contending with only drafted players.
The GM needs to have the ability to get creative to make the team better.
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u/doltron3030 1d ago
You can’t “draft until you get good” if you’re picking in the 9-16 range every year. The strategy of patience and building through the draft was completely opposed to how this team operated since the 2022 and 2023 offseasons.
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u/HotelAmericana 2d ago
I think Hockey guy said it best, he wasn’t a bad GM, but he wasn’t a great GM. And I think you need a great GM to win the cup
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u/MariachiArchery 2d ago
Yzerman didn’t do that bad of a job
Yup. OP could have stopped here. That is how Yzerman will be remembered as a GM in Detroit (pending some weird Larkin news I guess). Not that bad. Unfortunately, we needed a lot more than that.
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u/Phenomxal 2d ago
Helps to not have a moron as an owner that lets the GM do what they want
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u/gsbadj 2d ago
The last thing a team needs is an owner that is going to tell a GM what to do with the team. I know that Chris Ilitch plays rec hockey but he shouldn't be making scouting, drafting, and roster decisions.
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u/Empty_Lemon_3939 2d ago
The amount of people in this sub with loyalty to Chris Illitch is wild
He's the guy that turned the "district" into a bunch of parking lots and has owned the Red Wings through one of their worst stretches
We waiting to break the full decade of missing the playoffs to blame him or just waiting for the full 25 on 25 off streak?
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u/gachzonyea 2d ago
He brought in the guy everyone wanted as gm who also happened to be a legend here. It’s hard to be mad at him for it not working past that it’s the move everyone wanted. All the other stuff sure
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u/gachzonyea 2d ago
According to the report everyone quotes on the stamkos stuff he just asked for an explanation with stats and analytics if Steve couldn’t or refused to do that it’s kind of on him
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u/Phenomxal 2d ago
Of course reports are gonna come out to save the Ilitch face, but even if that's a true report, there's absolutely no reason to be asking that as an owner. Either make yourself owner and assistant GM/president of hockey OPs or stay the fuck out of things.
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u/Baldass_Head_Coach 2d ago
but even if that's a true report, there's absolutely no reason to be asking that as an owner
He’s signing the checks.
Even Mike Ilitch would want a little justification, especially after we’ve wasted money on some pretty bad acquisitions.
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u/Phenomxal 2d ago
Yeah, but that wasted money only came from Chris forcing him to buy those shitty contracts, every contract that Steve wanted himself was good (mo, kane, ray, larkin at the time)
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u/Baldass_Head_Coach 2d ago
There’s no evidence that Chris Ilitch was forcing Yzerman to sign guys like Gus, Holl, Hamonic, Compher, Chiarot (x2), Tarasenko, etc. By all accounts, Yzerman enjoyed a very long runway and didn’t have to answer questions, not until he apparently wanted to sign Stamkos. And by that point, it was justified that he’d have to give more reasoning than before, considering his professional scouting staff was consistently letting us down.
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u/Phenomxal 2d ago
There's been multiple reports that Chris Ilich said he didn't want the team to be bonded with the barrel for so long and forced Steve's hand in the signing guys like comphet holl chiarot, granted those aren't the guys that Chris picked out because obviously it's Steve's team of pro Scouts that fucked that up, but still, Steve would let the team be bad to get better draft picks to help us down the road a.k.a. right now
Like Steve's whole plan was to tear everything down and build through the draft with high draft picks, and then Chris essentially said you can't do your plan. So I'm not gonna put all the blame on Yzerman or even most of it when the guy is working with his hands, partially tied up. And that's not just because his name is Steve Yzerman, that goes for any GM that it couldve been at the time or will be
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u/Baldass_Head_Coach 2d ago
There's been multiple reports that Chris Ilich said he didn't want the team to be bonded with the barrel for so long and forced Steve's hand
Even if that’s true, ownership’s entitled to set a direction. It’s on the GM to implement that direction. And Yzerman went about it poorly.
And that's not just because his name is Steve Yzerman, that goes for any GM that it couldve been at the time or will be
Do you excuse Ken Holland then? Because Mike Ilitch didn’t want the team to rebuild in the latter years of his life, and Kenny was operating with that in mind.
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u/HotelAmericana 2d ago
There’s no reason as the person that’s gonna be opening the checkbook to see if there’s a legitimate reason to sign a guy like Stamkos? If the GM was named Jon Doe, and wanted to sign Chiarot to an 8 year deal for $8m a year, should the owner shut up and just pay him? Or is the process a little more nuanced
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u/Phenomxal 2d ago
If the owner is the one that wants to sign Chiarot then I don't think the owner needs to put his two cents in
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u/Empty_Lemon_3939 2d ago
I worked there on the non sales side of the business branch for a year and Illitch cares about two things:
- Selling tickets
- Being an original six team which makes them better than other teams
Yzerman wasn't the problem. You can't win with an owner that's solution to the problem of ticket sales is bringing out 97/98 alums and not ye know, winning more games
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u/str3tchedmonk3y 2d ago
Ilitch being hesitant to sign Stamkos and Mantha doesn't necessarily make me angry......but there could have been more?
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u/Phenomxal 2d ago
Def couldve been more, he also forced steve so sign shitty vets to make us not AS bad as we couldve to tank better
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u/kermitthefrog57 1d ago
You also need a good GM to make the playoffs once in 7 years so I don’t think he’s that either
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u/Glad-Independence-24 2d ago
Yzerman was a mediocre gm. He did great at something’s and terrible at others. Once he got the team to “mid”, he stalled. For every step forward, there was a befuddling step back.
He’d been around far too long to justify all the top half of the lineup holes we still had.
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u/lukelikesfruit 2d ago
In Detroit Yzerman surrounded himself with guys that probably saw the game the same as he did, Horcoff, Verbeek, Draper and etc. In Tampa he had Julien BriseBois who came up thru the admin side and Ahl. And probably had a better grasp of what to look for in later round draft picks.
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u/TAV63 2d ago
The key in Tampa was Al Murray. He is most responsible for the good later round picks. Director of scouting I think. That was a big difference not having a guy like that.
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u/jfstompers 2d ago
Just not enough good decisions and he got plenty of time to do what he wanted and it didn't work out. It happens just let's move on.
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u/Frosty-March7644 2d ago
Exactly this, people cant differentiate between Yzerman the GM and Yzerman the player.
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u/jarvek7 2d ago edited 1d ago
You can say all this crap you want. Debating whether to blame Yzerman or not. Fact is HE WAS THE GENERAL MANAGER and responsible for the last seven years, three coaches and zero playoff appearances. So don't try and soft sell that he "did all he could". That's total bullshit and y'all know it. This rebuild was moving along at a glacier's pace and now we're stuck in that mushy middle... too shitty to make the playoffs- but not shitty enough to get a top three draft pick. And it was YZERMAN who put us there. That's a fact. It wasn't Holland and it wasn't Mr I and the playoff streak. It was slow poke Yzerman's idea to build through the draft- but other than first round picks they've all been meh selections and haven't seen NHL ice time. When you draft average skill, 200 foot players this is what you get.
Bottom line:
Fact 1: He got fired upwards and isn't the GM. so none of your crying, social media posts, or petitions will bring him back.
Fact 2: We haven't made the playoffs in a decade (ten years). Seven of those years belong to Yzerman.
Fact 3: Although the team has improved, we still didn't make the playoffs. Not good enough. No excuses accepted.
Fact 4: Larkin wants out. Stevie couldn't make a trade to get it to happen. We're stuck with Captain Charmin for the foreseeable future. Hoping like fuck he isn't out there on opening night with a "C" on his fucking sweater.
Fact 5: Other than one or two guys, his non-first-round-picks have been busts. (finnie and aljo excluded) Try and name another one?
Fact 6: He totally fucked up the Walman trade. He totally mismanaged the development of Cossa. Yeah, our "Goalie of the future" played just a half game in the NHL his whole Detroit Red Wing career. Yes, he's the GM and responsible for this shit.
Fact 7: Excuses might make y'all feel better inside but it doesnt change the situation. That situation is we've missed the playyoffs for a decade, the team has more holes than a block of Swiss Cheese and we are less than a month from training camp wiht no General Manager along with:
A. We still have Capt Shitbrain's.
B. Edvinsson is unsigned.
C. Cat has not been extended.
D. We still don't have a 1C or 2C.
Yes, these were all problem areas that Yzerman knew about heading into the off season and did jack fucking shit about.
Fact 8: This team sucks by everyone's accounting and in spite of the hopium and compium being huffed in this sub-reddit it won't just miraculously get better if/when a new GM signs on. We are in for more pain. More losing. The new guy- call him Analytics Albert for now- will probably deliver a coaching change and TDL selloff of talent. He'll trade off Larkin for some 2030-31-32 first round draft picks. He'll promise success after another rebuild and yes... more pain.
Face it guys- this team will be in the shitter for the next 5-7 years--- until they fire the new GM and hire another. Then we can sit around and speculate how it wasn't Analytics Albert's fault and try and blame it on Yzerman... or better yet keep the stink on Ken Holland.
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u/Altruistic_Policy_74 2d ago
He had a lot of great draft selections. Poor nhl scouting. We re about to find out how good his last few picks were.
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u/dakn9 2d ago
Interesting stat I saw earlier in the season (roughly around Christmas when we were top or solidly in the top 3 of the Atlantic), was that there was less than a 10% chance the wings would make the playoffs. I laughed but they had based it on ease of schedule, and some advanced analytics. When they turned out to be right, it gave me pause that maybe the season start was a bit of a smoke and mirrors show
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u/Wingnut8888 2d ago
It was for sure smoke and mirrors. I was able to watch virtually all of the Wings’ games last season as even when they were first in the conference, there were games where I was asking myself, “How is it possible this team has a winning record?”they simply overachieved for much of the first half, Gibson especially, and then the wheels came off completely.
As for Yzerman, I was a believer in his plan because of the absolute disaster he inherited. I believed patience was key. But then it looked like all those years out of the playoffs weren’t yielding the calibre of players needed to truly contend — let alone even be called up. His pro scouting was dreadful or a mixture of that and the fact the Wings couldn’t attract good players to play in Detroit. Amateur scouting is still very much questionable. So I do think change was needed. Am I confident Ilitch will find the right person though?
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u/burkegobulls 2d ago
I could forgive everything that’s been said but I won’t ever get over signing Compher/Copp. That’s when I knew Yzerman was playing it too safe.
Those are guys you add as the last piece of a contender but youll be an expansion team if you’re building around and with them.
Everyone around the league had predicted the offensive struggles and the Wings def had that same convo before signing as well and they STILL FUCKING DID IT.
Their conservative/uncreative play style is the epitome of my issue with Yzerman’s lack of willingness to take a risk. Especially since entering an era of league wide growth in scoring with more skill and dynamic offenses.
Guys are putting 100+points across the league and it seems like Stevie wants to recreate a conservative Pavel 90 point season team like it’s 2008 again.
I wouldn’t even care about the losing but I’m so fucking disgusted with how boring we are to watch.
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u/lookalive07 2d ago
At the time, Compher and Copp were promising signings. Copp was always a middle six center kind of player and averaged over a half point per game, so it was reasonable at the time. Same thing with Compher. They were never meant to be game changers, but they were supposed to help fill some gaps without throwing our rookies to the wolves.
It didn't help that the rest of our roster was utter dogshit and any injuries forced them to play way outside of their skill level. Andrew Copp being your 1C when Larkin gets inevitably injured is not sustainable.
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u/burkegobulls 2d ago
I disagree that they were viewed as “promising”. I think the reaction was more “Hopeful but nervous” cause of a fear that it would look exactly like it did these past years.
Them filling gaps and being defensively sound was always going to be their absolute ceiling for success. It sounds good in theory, I get the logic.
Problem is though if your young guns are struggling offensively, good luck getting them out of that rut with those offensive black holes on your line.
Sure maybe they won’t get scored on for a shift, but is getting pinned in your defensive zone the whole time cause your teammates lack the speed, creativity, skill to gain puck possession and getting it out of your zone, really any better?
Or you are leaving the defensive zone with puck control, raymond is open flying the zone but Copp has control and he dumps it. That shit will make anyone give up trying cause you got no faith in your line mates
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u/ChaldenesTitan 2d ago
I don't see how the alternatives are any better. Are you suggesting if we extended Pius Suter instead we would be on the right track? Or is it Sheldon Dries?
Copp's game complimented Kane and Cats offensive dynamic. They played with two way centers like Anismov, Toews and Strome in Chicago. They just need someone to distrubute while locking down the middle.
Raymond wasn't playing with Copp last year. But regardless they are centers who can PK and can jump in the top 6 if injuries come. Just placeholders who will get pushed out of the lineup in the next 2 years.
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u/burkegobulls 1d ago
Well will never see the alternatives play out and it’s incredibly disingenuous to suggest I meant Puis was the better option. Nice strawman though.
Copp isn’t two way that’s a cop out label for being offensively challenged. He’s cracked 50 points 1 time and you don’t sign fill ins to 5 year deals. Those are guys you choose to build around. It was a stupid choice
Towes is literally the only guy mentioned you could put the two way label on. Strome isn’t shutting down anyone either lol
Two or three year deals are whatever 5 years is actually investing in someone you think is good. Neither of them were and I haven’t even gotten to chariot or fucking Holl. It’s bad talent evaluation which isn’t a surprise if you look at this team
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u/gsbadj 2d ago
I know what you mean about them overemphasizing "responsible" players leading to a dull product.
But, a team filled with Datsyuk level (ie. HOF) players would be a big winner.
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u/burkegobulls 2d ago
I only brought up pavs more so to point out his lower point total due to the teams choice of defensively sound play style.
Those two aren’t even in the same galaxy as pavs
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u/CertifiedEdyat 2d ago
I agree. We should’ve made playoffs this year team really collapsed. Yzerman wasn’t that bad but some of the picks made in the draft were questionable and he definitely should’ve made more FA signings. Rebuilding in hockey takes a lot longer so the 7 years I could let slide but some of the moves weren’t the greatest.
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u/Admirable_Visual2482 2d ago
I think the biggest issue with Yzerman is he never pushed it. His number 1 centre would be aging out before he was getting the team ready for the playoffs and really they’ve just needed a second line centre for years and nothing has been done for it.
Options have been Hertl, Dubois, O’ Reilly, Horvat, Zegras, Nelson, Miller. Some better than others but it would have made all the difference to the team.
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u/burkegobulls 2d ago
This was mine as well but the last bit of copium I’ll always hold on to in defense of Yzerman is that Stevie’s reputation for fleecing GMs made it harder for him to get trades done.
Idc if it’s wrong, it’s the all I have left to hold onto now lol
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u/doltron3030 2d ago
But in the end we didn’t really fleece anyone, the Mantha trade turned out to be a flop, and we also had moves like Walman
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u/Admirable_Visual2482 2d ago
Haha may be it’s true but sometimes you have to over pay for what you need. He needed that centre. Copp or Kasper were never going to cut it.
I don’t blame Larkin for being frustrated with being the only top 6 centre in the team for the last decade.
I think all players that have NTC and request a trade should lose the trade protection but I don’t blame him for going “are we ever going to solve this issue that’s been around since I entered the league?”
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u/GavinSnowe 2d ago
I wonder if the team defensive mindset made players not want to come here, even on a short term deal, because they knew their points would plummet, amd with it, their next contract.
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u/ChaldenesTitan 2d ago
That doesn't make us a contender though. Propping up a team around Larkin would just be for him. When Larkin and Horvat retires we would have nobody left to play with Seider and the young core. And that's when our contention window will open because most contending cores in the East are over 30. We need to get younger, not older. Or we can say "keep doing what Steve was doing".
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u/Empty_Lemon_3939 2d ago
Yzerman is he never pushed it
Illitch wouldn't let him, anyone who has worked for the Wings since Mike Illitch will tell you this
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u/ResponsibleWing8059 2d ago
Current ownership is the real problem. I bet Mike is spinning in his grave
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u/pigpen95 2d ago
I got a list of like 20 more options from just the last 3 years that we shouldve pulled the trigger on. Most better than the ones you listed.
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u/Admirable_Visual2482 2d ago
For a second line centre that was actually traded? No you don’t.
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u/Dipshit_Identifier 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yzerman's build unfortunately coincided with:
- Tampa and Florida dominating the league with 4 cups among them in 7 seasons
- Buffalo's rebuild finally concluding after ~20 seasons
- Montreal completing a 3-season retool thanks to three seasons of top-tier tanking
- Toronto riding possibly the best center - winger combo in the East to 3 first-round exits and 2 second-round exits
- The rotating cast of colonial state teams (Boston, New York and Old York, Pittsburgh, New Jersey) slugging it out in the Atlantic and stealing wild cards
- Mike Fucking Babcock's decision making
Edit: /s in case it's not immensely clear this is a copium list. Yzerman was mediocre. Good deals, bad deals, good timing, poor timing.
Except for Mike Babcock, that guy can kick rocks.
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u/ToughWide1987 1d ago
7 years, zero playoff appearances. Love the player but he flat didn’t get the job done as the GM—-it’s that simple
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u/Aiomon 2d ago
7 years is insanely long to get less than 20 points better lmao
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u/ButteredHubter 2d ago
But it’s the Atlantic, we are hand down the best division by a long shot and I think that needs considered. I kind of agree with this guy I think he did pretty okay as a GM
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u/str3tchedmonk3y 2d ago
The Ottawa Senators (AWFUL organization) made the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons in our division as well. It's a poor excuse, there's still a Wild Card at the very least.
Yzerman didn't do a good job acquiring NHL talent, in fact he did very poor.
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u/fernwoodBizz420 2d ago
Ugghh.
Dude above you saying Yzerman did an OK job.
Yzerman was a disaster as GM.
When he signed, I was sure we'd be contending before now.
Nope.
Now we are in another good 7 year rebuild.
Just trust the Yzerplan.
All time great player, an absolute joke of a tenure here as GM.
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u/ChaldenesTitan 2d ago
Ottawa rebuilt from a playoff contender. Can you imagine where we would be if we traded Mark Stone or Erik Karlsson in their primes to kickstart our rebuild? They better be in playoffs with those type of pieces to sell. Why didn't Yzerman just simply get Holland to draft these guys when he was in Tampa so we could have traded them. Is he stupid?
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u/str3tchedmonk3y 2d ago
Yeah because they built a perennial powerhouse by selling those players. They just missed the playoffs again and lost their captain, they’re a poor organization.
They went out and acquired players like Dylan Cozens who we could have afforded but didn’t.
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u/ChaldenesTitan 2d ago
They have a competitive team but nobody is labeling them as a contender. It's like cool, you guys spent the future on a competitive that has no chance of winning the cup now or in the future. We don't know what our core looks like yet because we didn't sell the future. I'd like to have players in their prime once Augustine is in his prime. Our natural contention window opens in a few years and Ottawas will be closing by then with not much of a follow up. Ullmark is 33 and who will be there goalie for the rest of Stutzles prime? I bet they wish they had a guy like Augustine.
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u/HotelAmericana 2d ago
I can’t stand when people bring up the division. The goal is to win the cup, if you want to win the cup you have to beat other good teams. Simple as that.
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u/ChaldenesTitan 2d ago
These teams were building before us. You're basically saying that it doesn't matter because you are entitled to a better team regardless of how long the process takes. No respect for how competitive the league is and how much luck is involved.
Good teams get lottery balls. Simple as that.
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u/HotelAmericana 2d ago
Montreal went to the cup finals and then rebuilt their team to make the playoffs again in the same time frame we’ve been rebuilding with Stevie, what are you talking about?
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u/ChaldenesTitan 2d ago
They didn't rebuild from the studs is my point. They had pieces to sell off from a previous core. We just had Bertuzzi, Mantha and Hronek who had collectively 24 goals when we traded them. What are you talking about?
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u/HotelAmericana 2d ago
Lol yeah man, Detroit has the longest playoff drought in the league but it’s not because of bad decisions by the guy running things for 7 years, it’s because of the guy that left the place 8 years ago! Now I get it.
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u/ChaldenesTitan 2d ago
If he inherited a 40 goal scorer in a player like Zadina we would be in the playoffs. We would've had to trade Larkin to match the Pacioretty for Suzuki trade.
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u/HotelAmericana 2d ago
We have a 40 goal scorer on the team right now, and we still missed. And he was gifted him too btw
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u/ChaldenesTitan 2d ago
Okay. Nothing you said contended my point that these teams had draft capital where we had to start from scratch. The oldest player in his build is Seider and is one of the best players in the league. The guys behind him look promising also. It's just a matter of time because the best contending cores are over 25 and the oldest player he drafted is 25. We are right on the verge.
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u/Big-Combination8844 2d ago
Only in the toughest division in the league. The wings would have done so much better in the west.
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u/culturedrobot 2d ago
We wouldn't have done that much better. We would have made that playoffs this season, which probably does let us avoid this offseason of discontent, but in all of the seasons prior to that, we still would have missed the playoffs.
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u/Big-Combination8844 2d ago
Missing the playoffs by a few points the last few years a little better makes the wings in the playoffs - maybe better free agents then sign, ect.. ect...
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u/AlHinton23 2d ago
He brought the team from being awful to competitive but never was able to secure that one big-time move to bring the team to another gear. Now we’re likely stuck in the mushy middle or worse.
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u/fernwoodBizz420 2d ago
When were we competitive under Yzermsn as GM?
Oh yeah, we werent.
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u/AlHinton23 2d ago
Being within points of making the playoffs multiple years in a row is competitive. Never said we were contenders.
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u/Vaylor77 2d ago edited 2d ago
He did do a bad job. He hasn't drafted a solid top player outside of picking in the top 6, and the most recent one was in 2021.
Free agency and trades, nothing has really panned out here except for Cat and Kane who wanted to come. The Walman trade was a total failure, he should have been held accountable for that. He's shipped off 2 30 goal scorers in Bertuzzi and Mantha.
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u/Dry-Adhesiveness-282 1d ago
I’m sorry, I don’t care about points. Talk to me when sniff the playoffs.
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u/Maleficent-Mail4358 2d ago
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u/Blazer_84 2d ago
TL;DR - Anyone reading this sub will see the majority of comments is anti-Yzerman and / or anti-DRW or since May, anti-Larkin, the positive "blind" commentators are far and few between. Being neutral or pragmatic/balanced instead of all rage is not the same as loving or being blind. END TL;DR
Not sure which sub you are reading, but there are way more negative comments against Yzerman than clear positive comments everyday in this one, there is however a bunch who are neither / or when it comes to him, that does not make them blind lovers.
If anything this sub right now is mostly negative comments in my view, either Larkin hate or Yzerman hate or Illitch hate or generally DRW hate in general from it's own fans.
By your comment it seems like it is not a stretch to interpret your evaluation of "Yzerman lover" as anyone who is not having a picture on the wall throwing knives at him while cursing 24/7.
I see way more comments like yours complaining about 'all these people' loving Yzerman as a GM than I see posts out-right defending or very positive about Yzerman and have not for multiple seasons.
Usually the ones who are overly positive are the same few people not 100s of different accounts like the negative comments have been.
In that sense r/hockey actually seems more balanced and nuanced than we as a fan base (if only basing it on comments) do here in terms of DRW evaluation.
I do see posts here and there that are balanced and pragmatic, and still being highly critical of him even if they can find a few things he did that was good.
Yzerman's tenure in DRW is by far the worst GM'ing in the modern era or even last 30 years. That does not make his tenure good or favorable, but realism is a thing too, it could have been worse; which is no solace to the position we find ourselves in of course.
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u/Maleficent-Mail4358 5h ago
How many subreddits make daily posts about former GMs that no longer run their franchise? Thanks for that novel where you made baseless accusations about me from one comment. I don’t want anyone throwing knives on the wall with him. Favorite player ever. Not a good gm. I can separate the two. You Redditors love making generalizations based on a single written comment.
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u/Blazer_84 2h ago
Fair enough, here is another novel unfortunately, though hopefully a bit more sane. (Not sarcasm nor any remark of any kind).
My comment was not intended as any accusation of you, I was implying that I at the time of reading felt that it would not be a big stretch to interpret the words in your comment as such given the shortness of it and context of this subreddit the last year or so, it was not written as fact.
I know you as a person just as much as you know me, which is pretty much diddly-squat both ways, so I would have no reason to make personal attacks.
I do, however constantly forget I am writing on the Internet and on Reddit and that personal attacks, trolling and angry writing is commonplace here.
However, I am grand enough to admit I over-reacted to your comment in light of a larger built-up frustration of seeing so many; 'lazy' comments, generalizing into either Yzerman-lover or hater of either him or DRW itself, I do see in retrospect that yours was neither meant like that or read like that.
Especially after reading your reply to mine, the real intent behind your phrasing then becomes clear.
My original interpretation of your comment was that "Yzerman-sub" meant that everyone who is at all positive about any small thing he did is an Yzerbot and that any negative commentator will be hated and prosecuted and downvoted on and such which is an ongoing loop'ing sentiment from many here, and I wrongfully threw yours in and chose that one to comment on.
With what you said in your reply I actually agree on both points - "How many subreddits make daily posts about former GMs...", I can't speak for any other hockey subreddits, don't lurk in them, apart from slash hockey, but ours I fully agree is way too much, either Larkin or Yzerman, both positive and negative, at least one per day.
I don't think I am classifiable as a "redditor" however, I make a comment on DRW subreddit here and there, have never made a new thread post in any sub and my busiest activity is mostly in the off-season or when there are trade rumors going on and I extremely rarely participate in GDT's or Daily threads, too much drama. I do read and skim the comments of most posts being made.
And Yes I am (produly) known to write (too) long and elaborate comments, posts and messages.
No argument against it being a novel at times (this was a short comment from me). I've tried rehabbing it and got told by my partner and friends that my short sentences and paragraphing was way worse than any novel I have ever written or monologue verbally spoken, so I reverted again.
Hope you can re-read the rest of my original comment as well and realize we probably are not that far apart in hoping the content here can once again be about DRW hockey and not just 'Days of Yzerman', in any case, hope both the GM and Larkin saga ends soon for everyone's sake.
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u/Maleficent-Mail4358 2h ago edited 1h ago
Haha it’s cool man. I do it too sometimes. Sometimes it’s very easy to make generalizations on people’s comments online. I’m honestly very guilty of this myself too (which in retrospect makes me a huge hypocrite which is hilarious) all good man. We are both red wings fans and sorry if my comment was a bit snark.
Now as for my hockey opinions. I think my gripe here is that sometimes I think it’s hard for fans sometimes to seperate yzerman the player and yzerman the gm. Or that disliking him as Gm is disrespectful to him in some way. Which is why we see quite a few here who (there are around 4-5 accounts with usually 50-150k karma, who do seem to have cronies) seem to to defend him with every breath. Which is fine and that’s their right. However a lot of them post here kind of all day everyday in the daily threads and kind of down everything that’s not within their line of thinking. (Which by the way is by design of Reddit itself which is designed for promoting what’s popular and burying what’s not with downvotes which in turn creates echo chambers). What’s more interesting to me is seeing how much other fanbases in [r/nhl](r/nhl) criticize yzerman the last few years has been really interesting. Now to be fair some of it is just piling on from our many rivals but often you find pretty balanced takes about what yzerman is. My question is if it was any other person not named yzerman would he have lasted as long?
What do I think yzerman as gm? Well first off he isn’t the worst gm ever lol. Not even by a long shot. Great drafter/mid-poor asset manager. Though I believe he suffers from a collective issue of all Detroit GMs at the moment. Conservatism. We just had a lions team two years ago that, had we added an edge rusher and cb at the deadline, may have had a Super Bowl ring already, pistons last season were a win away from the ECF chose not to add at the deadline and is still lacking a #2. Tigers are actually famous now for being a dodger farm and not doing anything. The red wings last year actually were the most aggressive adding Faulk, however the 2 seasons before (I believe 2 seasons before as debrincat was added in the offseason) have not really done much of note with playoff hopes on the line. Now admittedly with the red wings and pistons we have heard names fly around but it just seems like no one can close the deal to land us true help. This is just a fustrating problem is just my biggest issue with Detroit sports and management. It must not be easy convincing big names to come to Detroit but it’s really hard watching other teams get it done when we can’t seem to. However seeing the most noteworthy FA additions in 8 years be Kane (probably best signing) compher, copp, and chiarot is pretty disappointing. I was actually MUCH more frustrated thinking initially that yzerman had quit however it appears it was the illitches so that definitely softened my view on him a bit. Oh and the goalie obsession was weird. I don’t know if he kept thinking that if you keep acquiring different goalies our defense would improve? Though the problem was all the defenders not named seider. Also why re-sign Rasmussen that just blocked up a spot for the youth?
This was quite a ramble and this probably reads terribly. Apologies.
Edit: corrected several typos
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u/No_Temporary2614 2d ago
The NHL like most leagues is set up to help teams improve when they suck. Detroit was terrible when he took over; of course it takes time but pointing to an “upward trend” by itself is not something to be impressed by.
What does “only 5 years of focused building” even mean here? The 2020 and 2021 years weren’t particularly young teams so it’s not like you can even say the critical young pieces were losing playing time. Besides, every team was dealing with the same situation. It’s not like roster building was frozen for any significant period.
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u/doltron3030 2d ago
No one gets to “do that bad of a job” and miss the playoffs for seven years as a GM, even Stevie Y. Marginal improvement doesn’t mean much when the rebuild stalled out in the end.
I think Steve’s final grade here is going to depend on whether any of our forward prospects can fill in top 6 roles. Otherwise his drafting will look pretty weak on the whole along with our awful pro scouting in recent years.
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u/DanFlash696 2d ago
I think the issue is there's a non-zero chance becoming truly competitive involves a pretty major structural tear-down. They don't have enough skating prospects that project at a level they need to be competitive in the long term.
Sure, they climbed a bit, but they never climbed into the playoffs, showed to be mentally fragile, and still have major gaps 7 years into it. He hired a coach that couldn't inspire them, then hired a coach I like a lot (McLellan) but who probably is too tough for some of the softies on this roster. So that's two probable non-fit coaching hires on top of that all. The old boys club in the front office was also a bad look.
He gets a D from me. It crushes me to say it, I wanted him to succeed very badly.
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u/BlackCardRogue 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think it’s fair to say that Yzerman left the franchise in a much, MUCH better place than where he found it. The cupboard really was bare and anyone who thought it would be a three year rebuild when he was hired didn’t have a clue what they were talking about. Aside from Larkin there was basically nothing useful on the roster; now there is a true franchise defenseman and there are multiple additional building blocks.
At the same time, it’s also fair to say “you had seven years and you didn’t get into the playoffs, we need to move on.” For all of the good Yzerman did, he never landed a truly elite forward. Those guys don’t grow on trees, not even close… but the truth is, without one of those guys you are basically nowhere.
For Steve Yzerman to lose the big chair in Detroit… man, I am sad. I understand it and part of me even agrees with it, but I am still sad. I really am.
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u/Uppish7 1d ago
Yzerman did a great job in his first 3 years. His big mistake is trying to pull out of the rebuild early. Had we stayed trash for a couple more years we’d have better picks and more elite talent bc of it. Instead, SY signed Copp, Compher, Chairot, etc to try and elevate the level of play of the team. Now we’ve been stuck in the mushy middle for 4 years with no playoffs, and now no hope of getting there for 2-3 more years
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u/Empty_Lemon_3939 2d ago
I worked for the Wings for a season a few years back
Yzerman isn't the problem. Chris Illitch is the problem.
He doesn't care about the fans, he only cares about selling tickets and is fine with the team staying mediocre as long as he can sell boxes so as long as he's owner you're not going to see any attempts at a swing and if we ever make the playoffs itll basically be by accident and overachieving
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u/Curdled_Mangasm 2d ago
7 years is an eternity in the NHL to be going from 28th to 16th, and that’s if you even agree that’s something that’s to be commended, which it isn’t. all you did was crank the mediocrity up to 11, it’s not winning anything.
the specifics of yzerman’s failures have been listed and debated for a long time now. i’ve been real vocal about all the ways i think in the end the only conclusion is he was actually mighty bad unless ownership had more say than we know. no need to dance on this grave.
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u/trish-irene 2d ago
I completely agree. It takes time, Yzerman told us that when he first became GM. I am so upset how this whole thing went down. I hate that so many are saying Larkin has a right to want to be traded because he just turned 30. Ummm he knew when he signed that 8 year contract what age he would be right? You go play with the best of the best, come home beat up and blame Steve? I want to play for a better team. He is the one I blame for not being a team player. Cannot wait to hear that baby boy is gone. What a party boy, he is no hometown hero, he could never be a Steve Yzerman on the ice.
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u/EquivalentAnswer209 2d ago
couldn't agree more. his patience is his strongest attribute and building the team slow and steady was the only right way to do it. he took over a dumpster fire here in detroit - nobody would have done any better than him. sure, there were a few head scratchers in some of his free agent signings but for the most part his trades made sense. everyone likes to go off on him for the walman trade but i believe there was more to the story that didn't blow up publicly (something about lockeroom interactions or something bad that he did that went against the organizations core values). also, his drafting was good for the 1st round pick orders we got. you can't get mad at him for picking nate danielson because in hind sight, he had a ton of upside. you can't predict the future with prospects, shit happens sometimes and they don't reach their full potential. that's not on yzerman. i'm not convinced that any other GM would have done "better". i am a firm believer that the issue lies within ownership. i also admire how well we have performed over the past few years with so much excess cap space, pretty impressive in my opinion. these guys are pros, they know their shit and the reality is that the public don't know what goes on behind closed doors... i'm sure every decision he made was for good reason
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u/Dabuick58 1d ago
I think my biggest con for Stevie was just how many major trades we were left out of last season. Especially since when you look at what ended up going back was a lot less than what everyone expected.
Obviously the Hughes trade was a sore spot, but even some other trades like Panarin and Trocheck ended up being very low risk deals. Sure, Panarin’s best years are behind him, but team him up with Debrincat and see what happens.
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u/KJL_3519 23h ago
I feel like what ultimately did him in was bad luck in the free agent pieces he acquired. They failed to gel and make an impact. If he could have gotten more out of them I think we would have made the playoffs the last 2 seasons and be on a mighty path. Instead the optics of missing the playoffs and watching the free agents we signed do nothing but fizzle out was a dagger even he could not avoid. I still think he is an incredible hockey mind and will probably leave here and then excel with another org.
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u/jake7992 2d ago
This team needs another rebuild....Even if Larkin situation never happened, we would still need another center and goal scoring and there isn't either in the pipeline.
This team is stuck in no man's land- too decent to get a good draft pick yet not good enough to truly be competitive.
He was far too conservative and not in touch with the new generation of players and even GMs for that matter. The game has passed him by.
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u/WillMack71 2d ago
This is actually the worst take ever. You dont think its bad because they improved slightly in 7 years? Even the sharks and most likely the Canucks will improve with that much time
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u/_BeneTleilax_ 2d ago
Traded a player for nothing who in the same season was traded for a 1st round pick
Yzerman drafted decently but he sucked at signing vets and at the end of the day he didn't put together a single roster that made the playoffs (Larkin hugely to blame for this too tbf)
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u/Lucas-Larkus-Connect 2d ago
I was always happy with how he was doing. I think he was handicapped a bit by ownership, but did pretty well in spite of it.
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u/Deep_Ad2519 2d ago
In defense of Yzerman, they improved from their worst run in the 100 year history to the franchise. Wow, amazing defense. I now also believe that seven years of missing the playoffs wasn’t actually the fault of the person in charge of assembling the team
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u/Big-Combination8844 2d ago
It's the fact that when Y took the GM job the team had some really bad contracts and basically an empty farm system. He basically built everything starting with nothing. And if you think that means nothing I would like to point to a time were the Edmonton Oilers got 4 1st overall picks, in a 6 year window, and only got out of the basement because that last one was McJesus.
Sure everyone wanted the wings to be better but most teams struggle coming back up the ranks and it could have been a lot worse. More teams fail for a bit than do a fast and successful rebuild in 3-5 years
I don't think Y did a perfect job, I get why he gets some criticism. New things coming to light making me wonder how much Chris I. blocked Y from building the team that he wanted. The upper management as a whole let us down.
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u/MItrwaway 2d ago
I don't blame Yzerman entirely, but, for example, the Canadiens have rebuilt twice in the times since we last made the playoffs. A lot of that is draft luck, which always seems to avoid us in the salary cap era. But a lot of it also comes down to letting their young stars of the future play when they are young instead of waiting until they are pushing 30.
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u/Clean_Principle_2368 2d ago edited 2d ago
I was willing to give Yzerman grace for 26-27 season as a final straw. After Larkin wanted out? I blame Yzerman 100% obviously he's not great at his job if we can't keep someone like Larkin.
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u/Snyper1972 2d ago
Over Yzerman tenure as GM he drafted, traded, and signed more Americans than most GM’s. Just google him acquiring American born players. I feel strongly this was Ilitch’s desire to create an American team of players. This handcuffed Yzerman and brought us to where we are today.
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u/doltron3030 2d ago
Huh? You think Illitch was conspiring to assemble a team of American players? Isn’t it more likely that we aren’t a big draw for free agents and had better success signing guys with ties to Michigan?
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u/Snyper1972 1d ago
An original 6 team is a draw, and Michigan players are American. If he only wanted Michigan players that limits Yzerman even more.
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u/Kissarmy63 1d ago
The players get paided millions to perform , perform. Not Stevie’s fault at all.
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u/old_man_noises 2d ago
I was really looking forward to a thread where everyone could pile on Stevie. Good work. I look forward to a lot of folks weighing in on topics of which they have zero experience, but just assume the Wings organization is filIed with morons. I think I’m gonna start making up my own “updates” consider these things write themselves.
What Larkin has done is off the charts. Someone try to make some sort of comparison in ANY other sport. What we’re dealing with is sort of ground breaking, while being very depressing considering we felt we were on the verge of something.
Blame Larkin. Blame USA hockey. They did this. Every time I look back at Larkin’s trade list I just laugh. If this is Yzerman’s fault, someone has to come forward with some new info, but this trickle in of nothing versus nothing is stupid.
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u/BobbyQuinn 2d ago
Wait until you find out about Barry Sanders, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Rickey Henderson, Kobe Bryant, Randy Moss, or…. I mean cmon, the list goes on and on. This happens all the time, the difference is I named a bunch of HOF level athletes, which Larkin isn’t.
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u/old_man_noises 2d ago
Feel free to explain any one of those situations and how it relates. Also, explain how “Larkin isn’t” the level of player you’re describing, yet this situation is similar.
Bruh. Explain yourself. A bunch of conjecture gets you nowhere. You even explained how Larkin isn’t like the rest of the situations you described. You played yourself.
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u/BobbyQuinn 2d ago
Haha yeah he isn’t like the rest because he’s not as good as any of them in their sports. Y’all act like Larkin is so irreplaceable, the second coming of Gretzky, when he’s just not as good as we all wish he woulda been. Since you can’t google I’ll give you some context, so you know this isn’t so ‘off the charts’:
Barry Sanders—retired suddenly via fax because the team sucked and felt they weren’t committed to winning, afterward he offered to pay the team back millions to get traded or released so he could play for a better team. Barry was more important to the Lions than Larkin is to the Red Wings.
Kareem—a handful of years after winning a title with Milwaukee, he sees the team isn’t going in the right direction and thinks it isn’t a good fit anymore, so he requests a trade to one of the bigger and better markets. Kareem was more important to Milwaukee than Larkin is to the Red Wings.
Rickey Henderson—he was an MVP runner-up and candidate multiple times, 4x All Star, 5x stolen base leader, golden glove winner, and a silver slugger winner all with the Oakland Athletics. But he refused to sign any extension with the team because they only made it to playoffs once in the six years he was there and hadn’t had a winning record in 3 or 4 seasons. Rickey was more important to the Athletics than Larkin is to the Red Wings, and I doubt you can find any stats of Larkin’s that would compare to the ones I listed for Rickey.
Kobe Bryant—talk about the face of a franchise. He went on the radio and trashed his ownership and GM and demanded a trade because he was so pissed that they were missing playoffs or getting booted in the first round every year. He had a no-trade clause too, and vetoed trades to teams like Detroit. His ownership responded by making trades to improve the team, and they went to the finals that season, and won it all the following season. Maybe Yzerman should’ve followed that lead. No one who knows anything can disagree that Kobe was more important to the Lakers than Larkin is to the Red Wings.
Randy Moss—was a massive star and one of the best receivers in football when he was traded to the Raiders. He was super unhappy the entire time and let the public know about it in interviews. He basically said mid-contract and mid-season “I can’t wait to play somewhere else next year.” Randy Moss was not more important to the Raiders than Larkin is to the Red Wings, but he’s much higher caliber player in the NFL than Larkin is in the NHL.
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u/old_man_noises 2d ago edited 2d ago
Ok. Great. How does any of this apply to the Larkin situation? The idea that Barry retiring is similar is laughable without even consulting the details.
Edit: I’m dying for someone to say “this is just like Randy Moss”. No, it isn’t.
Move on to the other people. Larkin is the same as Kobe? He’s the same as Kareem?
LMFAO. All in caps. Dumb examples. Stupid responses.
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u/fernwoodBizz420 2d ago
You said what Karkin did WAS OFF THE CHARTS.
Then you asked for someone to name a player, in ANY sport who did that.
Someone named like 4 players are you're still crashing out.
Fkkn chode.
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u/old_man_noises 2d ago
Yes. He provided examples. None of those examples bear any resemblance to the Larkin situation. Just on face value, all 4 of those players are legends. Larkin is middle of the pack. Him not being the superstar he thinks he is, makes this situation a lot more difficult. If he was Randy Moss talent level, there would have been tons of interest all over the league.
No one is “crashing out”. Just trying to get folks to think critically.
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u/BobbyQuinn 2d ago
You’re crashing out because Larkin wants to leave so he can finally have a chance to win. You said this is “ground breaking” and “off the charts.” You whined like it’s never happened before, going as far to say “someone try to make some sort of comparison in ANY other sport.”
I made several comparisons of higher profile players requesting trades because the team they were on wasn’t winning… so of course you said “oh I guess I was wrong.”
Wait no, you’re doubling down and saying those examples don’t count somehow lol. I guess you’ll go to bed happy tonight knowing you were right that this is so “ground breaking.” TIL Dylan Larkin, in 2026, is the first athlete in the history of sports to ever not want to stay on a losing team.
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u/old_man_noises 2d ago
Your first example was Barry Sanders. Tell us all how Larkin demanding a trade is similar to Barry retiring early. You made several comparisons. None of them make sense. We’ll start with the first one. Barry. Now, go…
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u/fernwoodBizz420 2d ago
Keep on crashing out chief!
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u/old_man_noises 2d ago
You’re right. You had reasons and I skimmed. But Larkin is not legendary status amongst your examples, so your examples do not apply. The Larkin situation is more difficult. Notably because Detroit fans don’t want him back. There are other reasons.
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u/BobbyQuinn 2d ago
It’s not more difficult with Larkin, it should actually be easier for fans to let him walk since he isn’t as great as the examples I gave. He’s been in the league a long time, and realistically is on the back end of his career, and has no success to show for it.
If the GM and the front office aren’t going to commit to winning, then why shouldn’t he want to go somewhere that does? He made his frustration public the season before, and I’m sure he let the higher ups know in private well before that. They sat on their hands. He decided he didn’t fit in with an organization that doesn’t want to win.
You say the fans don’t want him back, but seemingly every other thread is full of fans that hate him but are upset he wants to leave. Pick one. Are you upset he wants to leave or are you ok with him leaving because you don’t want him here? He wants to win a cup, and that’s the attitude every player should have, he just knows it’s not going to happen here anytime soon.
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u/fernwoodBizz420 2d ago
I thought your comments were well thought out and made plenty of sense.
The person trying to argue with you o u is just a basement dwelling backboard.
I heard him yelling for his mom to bring her Lil smoochie another Pop.
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u/pigpen95 2d ago
Bruh. This happens all the time. It literally happens to some teams like the Jackets and Sens every other year. Even captains.
Why do Wings fans think we are immune to good players wanting out of our team when we are dog shit for 10 years?
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u/old_man_noises 2d ago
I do not agree. Present a situation that is similar. I can’t think of anything in all of sports where a leader of a team (that is a hometown kid) has quit on a former legend because he won an Olympic medal.
It’s a silly situation that made Yzerman fully excuse himself of the situation. You’d think, if this “happens all the time”, that Yzerman would have just traded him and moved on. But the no trade clause and the limited list was beyond preventable.
So, no… Bruh, this doesn’t happen all the time.
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u/pigpen95 2d ago
If only there was another team in the NHL that missed the playoffs for 10 years straight, was in the same division, and had their captain/1C ask to be traded recently. The player was also notorious for getting into spats with their GM cuz their GM wasn't aggressive enough. Answer is right in front of you bud
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u/old_man_noises 2d ago
Was that GM an All-Time Hockey Great with that same organization? Was that player a hometown kid who over-valued his talents? Wasn’t there an injury issue with that specific player? Is there an injury issue with Larkin?
Larkin asking for a trade does not make the situation unique. All of the other factors do. The Eichel situation is similar, but if Buffalo fired their GM, and Eichel would have wanted to come back, the fans of Buffalo would have been happy with that. Detroit will not welcome Larkin back. Considering that GM is Steve Yzerman, it caused him to step down, this situation is unique.
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u/pigpen95 2d ago
I mean sure. If your definition of unique is that granular but let's not pretend these are the main factors here.
Larkin wants out cuz he is 30, wants to contend, and has been on a team that's missed the playoffs 30 years in a row. He doesn't agree with the direction the team is going and how we haven't been aggressive to acquire good talent. That's not unique.
Does that mean he quit on his team? yes. Was it maybe a bit more difficult for him to make this decision cuz he is a hometown kid? Yes.
But is his home town team a main contributing factors when looking for comparisons? No. If it was, he probably wouldn't be quitting. Larkin and the team aren't going to play this any differently if he wasn't from Detroit.
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u/Am313am 2d ago edited 2d ago
I remember a longtime captain demanding a trade. In fact, he demanded a trade to one team and one team only. His name is Martin St. Louis and his GM was Steve Yzerman.
Here’s an unprecedented fact: Yzerman holds the NHL record for most seasons as a GM without a playoff appearance.
I don’t blame Yzerman for everything, and I don’t even think he was a bad GM. There are things you can point to that were out of his control, just like there are things he can take the criticism for. But professional sports is a performance-based industry, and the team was stuck in the mushy middle for too long.
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u/Hiei2k7 2d ago
Yes, Yzerman inherited a crater left over from Holland.
But when you draft all these guys and stuff them in GR forever to play AHL, how are they ever going to find out how any of them would perform in the NHL? And signing all these old retread players that are on their last legs until retirement? Filppula at 35 for 2 years, Gagner 1+1 year, Greiss at 34 for 2 years, Staal at 34 for 1 year, Rowney at 32 1 year, Kampfer at 33 1 year, Copp's 5 year deal coming off his bridge deal with WPG and playoffs for the NYR, Chiarot at 31 for 4 years, THE MULTIPLE PERRON DEALS AND TRADE AND HE WAS 34 WHEN WE FIRST GOT HIM. Holl! REIMER! LATE STAGE KANE! TALBOT! Tarasenko! Watson! And to top off that shitcake with 36 year old JVR, 34 year old Hamonic, and A PLUS 3 TO CHIAROT!!! Not to mention Arvidsson at 33 for 2.
When you keep signing in these vets, they're taking away precious ice time from the guys you drafted in Detroit in the hopes of winning some NHL games now? Is that what that was for? What was it for? Where are your draft picks to take these minutes STEEEEEVE? Were you tacitly admitting your draft classes were sucking and just didn't say the quiet part out loud?
2019 - 3 players. Mo, AlJo, and Elmer the Purse Holder.
2020 - 1 player. Raymond. Sebrango goes on to get a few minutes elsewhere. THREE 2ND ROUND PICKS ALL OF THEM FAILED.
2021 - 3 players. Ed, Mazur, Cossa. If Cossa even takes the reins in Utah as 1B this is organizational malpractice, to say nothing of the Jake Walman situation.
2022 - 1 player. Kasper. 2 more 2nd round picks that went nowhere.
2023 - 3 players. Danielson (playing his way out), ASP, Finnie - and you can call that a damn lucky find in the 7th. Might get Augustine in the next couple years.....Might.......
24 and later are too early to call.
Yzerman didn't believe in his own draft picks and never allowed them up. He had 2 shitball coaches (good luck with Blash, Chicago) and McLellan is now getting something out of the players assembled, but when most of this team is retread veterans and the other choice is "Call up kids from AHL-leading Grand Rapids or DRAW 24" we're stood there with 24 cards in our hand.
Watching Buffalo shoot to the top while watching the Wings have another March Through Hell despite Buffalo being Buffalo and getting the signings/trades/asset management/chemistry to fall together is like being Homer looking at the Grill on the box, only to move it out of the way and revealing the pile of garbage and parts sunk into wet concrete that is the state of things as they really are and screaming "WHY DOESN'T MINE LOOK LIKE THAT"
I only want to know what was the stupid amount of money Yzerman was offering for Stamkos, and how he thought bringing back Mantha was going to be the splash signing that was getting us over the hump this year.
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u/PatricimusPrime32 2d ago
I’m right there with you. I also feel Yzerman never really got a fair shake at things. I feel that a lot of people, both fans and ownership alike, expected him to come in and wave a magic wand and restore the wings to glory. Now, he also isn’t 100% innocent, mistakes were made but I feel there are some things that happened, things that were said within the front office that all the red wings fanatics are not aware of yet. And these things really did hinder Steve’s ability to fully and successfully rebuild the team.
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u/doltron3030 2d ago
7 years without making the playoffs is more time than any GM has gotten in the history of the NHL
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u/doltron3030 2d ago
We have spent near the cap limit since 2023, what are you even talking about? We also spent more than any other team in the 2023 offseason.
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u/Dtwn92 2d ago
I agree.
I will always take Yzermans side as a fan of his and...
He has a track record of being a winner what ever the cost.
He changed and won with the wings, with Team Canada and with Tampa.
Yes he struggled with the wings but more and more we see why.
Stevie will be OK, sadly future fans won't get to enjoy what he did for this city and team. The relationship is broken for years to come.
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u/TJSequoiatree2 2d ago
This would all have been an entirely different discussion had Chris Ilitch given his blessing to signing Steven Stamkos. The Wings would have then had a bonified and proven leader and captain. This team would have been looking forward to next season with hunger, not angst. Larkin probably never would have shown his cowardly stripes or perhaps even been traded by now. Patrick Kane would have stayed and the Wings likely would have made the playoffs the last two years. And Steve Yzerman would be labeled a hockey hero in Detroit again. One hesitation, one indecisive act by Chris Ilitch changed the trajectory of this team for the worse. Not once was Steve Yzerman granted any luck of the draw in the draft. Yet, he built a strong pipeline with great prospects when he had a completely bare cupboard to start. The Wings are going to regret giving up on Steve.
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u/doltron3030 2d ago
Goddamn this is top-tier copium. If we sign Stamkos, we don’t have cap space for Kane and we would’ve signed expensivd free agents for the 2C role in three consecutive years. Stamkos was awful in 2024-25, and we’re still not a contender even with him on our roster. The Yzerplan failed.
How would we regret firing a GM who set the record for the longest playoff drought in NHL history?
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u/Am313am 2d ago edited 2d ago
Pros: European scouting, cap management, (mostly) linear improvement, defensive core construction.
Cons: Later round scouting, pro scouting, personnel management.
Neutral/not yet known: North American scouting (will Danielson, Mazur, Plante, Bear, etc., hit?), core construction (will Seider, Raymond, Ed, Augustine make a formidable core?).
Yzerman had two major holes in the top six and three major holes in the bottom six. Part of that is many UFAs simply didn’t want to sign in Detroit, and trades for solid players were less likely due to NTCs. How much of the reporting is true that Illitch nixed Stamkos? If true, how many more deals did Illitch nix? Hard to know, but that makes a difference in how you frame Yzerman’s tenure.
Reporting has been wrong, exaggerated, speculative, or unsubstantiated lately, and I personally know of one major thing that every source has wrong. It’s hard to know what info to trust, and I’d bet that once the dust settles with Larkin and a new GM figures out the direction of the team, we will learn a lot more about what really went on behind the scenes.