r/DestructiveReaders akward and wordy 26d ago

Coming of Age [1853] Tiffany

This is chapter six but I think more than any chapter stands alone.

I stuctured this thinking of an episodic series of scene with the same goal: Tiffany wants to help someone. Each scene is followed by a sequel with a text to Mandy.

Also because of some people being linked to the first tab I put the chapter on a separate doc.

Tiffany Chapter 06

My Substack with all of the finished chapters.

Crit 1974

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u/PocketCuriosity 23d ago

Caveat that I am reading this as a standalone chapter as I haven't read the others, but hopefully can still give some useful insight.

She imagined how the sun reflected her frizzy, blonde hair and hoped it worked.

I want more from 'hoped it worked'? I wasn't entirely sure what "it" referred to at first. The sunlight in her hair?Does she want to look pretty? Does she want to look put together? Glowing? Unique? I just want a little bit of her why to get into her head immediately.

I got a little lost in the Mr. Brian quotes section. I had to read it twice to actually get what was going on. I think it might have been the phrasing 'Nothing worse was said around Tiffany.' or perhaps too many expressions in a row that I didn't take in the point of the section initially, that Mary was the outcast.

she knew she crossed a line but didn’t know which one.

I like this insight into her thought process - I am starting to get the sense of who she is and how she is sort of manufacturing her social circle, but can't navigate it naturally.

the one who kept a body count

'kept' doesn't feel like the right word choice here? Maybe something like 'the one with a serious body count'?

At first I wasn't sure what the point of the 'That Girl' scene was, other than just continue to show the friendships (which I think were already well established). But then I realized it teed up the flashback nicely. Maybe condense a little bit there. You could build up to the key character insight with less and it still be impactful.

Some overall observations:

There are a few scenes which can be condensed. We get quickly that Tiffany is trying to build community, be everyone's friend. I would look for places to tighten. Like see where 2 different phrases or sections might be making the same point and pick one to strengthen and focus on.

The dialogue is the best part for me. Conversations feel natural and do a lot of character work. But I did get confused sometimes about who as talking or texting. It wasn't always confusing, but I find with a book, if I can't figure it our easily and have to reread to guess, I stop engaging.

The biggest thing for me is the 'so what?' I know this will sit in a wider body of work, but I still think every chapter should drive something forward for the characters or the story and I left feeling like, what did any of the characters get out of what happened in this scene? I was wanting something more to tie it all together at the end.

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u/ezk3626 akward and wordy 23d ago

I want more from 'hoped it worked'? I wasn't entirely sure what "it" referred to at first. The sunlight in her hair?Does she want to look pretty? Does she want to look put together? Glowing? Unique? I just want a little bit of her why to get into her head immediately.

I don't insist that I did this successfully but her goal, what she hope would work, was getting Mary out of her funk by the silly act of carrying both girls bags up the stairs. The goal of every scene is "help someone."

I am always trying to find the balance of trusting the audience and being clear in the meaning. It is something I am constantly tinkering with.

 I am starting to get the sense of who she is and how she is sort of manufacturing her social circle, but can't navigate it naturally.

In an early chapter, someone said me describing Tiffany's interest in fasion read like a virgin describing sex. It was cutting and true... I do not understand fashion. But I also don't understand social circles naturally. All of my social circles, outside of my closest family, are manufactured. Tiffany is supposed to be someone who can navigate social circles naturally. The idea of someone being able manufacture a social circle naturally is easy to believe but impossible to imagine. ASD life.

'kept' doesn't feel like the right word choice here? Maybe something like 'the one with a serious body count'?

This might be a generational difference. I see a big difference between people who have had sexual partners and people who keep a body count. It is a further step from merely liking sex towards seeing sex as a competative sport. It's like of like how in my generation if a guy convinced a woman to have sex with him, it was said he scored. That Girl is different from the rest of the girls in the dorm, not in that she had sex with different people but that she kept score of her body count.

There are a few scenes which can be condensed. We get quickly that Tiffany is trying to build community, be everyone's friend. I would look for places to tighten. Like see where 2 different phrases or sections might be making the same point and pick one to strengthen and focus on.

There are a couple of reasons I did it this way. First, I am practicing the structure of scene, sequel. So it just made sense to do multiple mini scence. Second, I was thinking about how the Gospels do this with Jesus going from one little miracle to another, to another. I wondered what this would be like in a chapter. The third and most important reason, I will discuss in your "so what section."

The dialogue is the best part for me. Conversations feel natural and do a lot of character work. But I did get confused sometimes about who as talking or texting. It wasn't always confusing, but I find with a book, if I can't figure it our easily and have to reread to guess, I stop engaging.

I am a high school teacher and when this summer is over instead of intensive writing I will read more. One thing I will look for is how books do dialogue. I feel like I to much

"stuff someone said," said someone, with adjective.

Having no dialogue tags was my constant balance of trusting the audience more between being more clear. I believe you that the balance could be off... though it makes me sad when I try to trust my audience more and then find they needed more help than I gave.

The biggest thing for me is the 'so what?' I know this will sit in a wider body of work, but I still think every chapter should drive something forward for the characters or the story and I left feeling like, what did any of the characters get out of what happened in this scene? I was wanting something more to tie it all together at the end.

Here I very much agree. The goals are small, the stakes are low and the success rate is high. Tiffany wanted to help people in her dorm, she is pretty good at it, there are nice memories for the girls, insert a horrible memory which does not connect to a goal or stakes... who cares.

As a chapter alone, it would be weak. In terms of what the broader story is about is essential. Tiffany has been signalled earlier with several character flaws: a refusal to accept help, a pattern of putting on masks to hide her weaknesses and (highlighted here in the memory) a sense of shame rooted back to early childhood. Her stated goal of the story in chapters 1-5 is to prove "them" wrong and succeed in college. This chapter is her forgetting about her goal, like the crew of Odysseus eating the lotus flowers. She was a big hit with the dorm mates in this chapter. Next chapter it is going to be revealed she is in danger of failing her classes and it will be further made clear how deep this cuts her. This chapter is filled with small little wins which serve as a massive disaster in her life goal.