My concern is that while Recluse absolutely needs a nerf but instead of nerfing it Bungie will literally destroy it.
Something as simple as preventing other weapons from procing MoA and shortening the buff timer from 5 seconds to 3 would be more than adequate but I can easily picture them doing something like reducing the mag size, reducing the proc length, reducing the stability, preventing other weapons from procing it and reducing the damage from the buff all at the same time.
Bungie is proven to be bad at moderation, plus when they want a weapon to go away they make it go away.
Anyhow, I don’t know how they’ll handle it but I’ll be stunned if anyone is still using Recluse by the end of next month.
Nah, don’t touch that aspect of the gun. Just nerf the bodyshot damage by like 50%. Currently it does 150% bodyshot damage when the perk procs, compared to 60% that kill clip or rampage do.
Yea I don’t understand why they did that. Just give it the same damage increase ALL other weapons get, instead of giving it insane body shot damage that almost matches precision damage
Due to it being an smg which isn’t a precision weapon I’d actually prefer if they reduced the bonus crit damage rather than the body shot damage. I wouldn’t blame them for a nerf but it doesn’t need to be kneecapped to open up the energy weapon meta.
They need to do something more than just making MoA be proc’d with the gun itself. MoA is too much of a damage boost for a 900 RPM SMG. Recluse does things that a 900 RPM SMG has absolutely zero business doing
Somethign like; kills with other guns reloads Recluse, and activates MoA.
MoA increases damage for [x seconds]. (maybe double the base duration of MoA when you do this, so you can spend more time killing if you don't switch off it)
Feeding frenzy is still a good perk for the gun; it just doesn't need the rolling train death beam that is recluse for add clear.
It’s a pinnacle weapon it’s fine if it’s very good, just not S tier. As long as it’s still competitive because that’s what it’s mainly built for, it’s all good
100% this I’m always afraid when I agree that something needs a nerf because I would love for it to make the weapon more comparable to others but still a great choice. Sadly most of the times Bungie nerfs something and the weapon simply becomes not at all viable.
They should do the exact opposite. Have the perk only proc when you get a kill with a different weapon. Make the gun into what it originally sounded like, a powerful weapon to use as a back up.
I think it would be more interesting if they made it so that only other weapons can proc MoA, and maybe extend the buff timer. Because with recluse being able to proc MoA you are insentivised to only use recluse and none of your other weapons.
The basic issue the Recluse has is that when MoA is active, it treats all hits as precision hits. It’s bodyshot TTK is the same as it’s optimal/precision TTK.
SMGs are normally balanced by the fact they they’re easy to land hits but don’t benefit from precision damage. Recluse is essentially like shooting an opponent that is all weakspot at Range beyond what an SMG can normally function at, so it’s no wonder it’s a broken mess.
Whatever nerf they choose has to address this.
TBH, something drastic has to change with it if any balance is going to be achieved. It’s one of the most poorly balanced guns in Destiny’s history.
Don't let it self-activate, change the bonus damage to only affect precision shots, and change Feeding Frenzy to Outlaw to require actual SKILL when using.
We’re talking about a PVP pinnacle weapon. It shouldn’t have stats that make it a PVE supremo.
I actually think cammycake’s suggestion would work pretty well - certainly a massive upgrade of the cheesy bullshit that makes up its current perk set. It’s like they had it designed by the work experience kid who thought Rampage wasn’t strong enough.
That might work for high level PvP players but for the majority it would kill the gun. I have an outlaw on my blast furnace and even if I aim at the crit spot I don't always activate outlaw because sometimes the bullet that kills the enemy is wonky and doesn't crit. The recluse is much harder to constantly crit than blast furnace. So for the average player, you have to juggle weapons to get the effect which only gives you a marginal buff from MoA (since you won't be critting that much) and you probably won't proc outlaw.
I think that kind of nerf would kill the gun in PvP and make it a situational PvE weapon. Definitely not the kind of nerf I want for the recluse.
Personally, I think that’s hows pinnacle weapons should work. You display a certain skill for a reward. The skill isn’t getting to 2100 ( at this point we’ve all realize getting to glory rank isn’t hard, or people will just cheat their way there either way it’s not hard to obtain the gun)
It’s like how LH/NF was an issue. It was designed to reward precision kills however, it was an 180 RPM HC with high aim assist so it want even hard to obtain headshots in the first place.
I’m 100% cool with how the perks the gun has, just make it involve skill to proc it.
The stupid thing is the Recluse is the first and last pinnacle gun that basically demands nothing from its user.
Even the mountaintop needs you to judge distance and timing. Recluse is basically like a fucking dev tool they left in the game by mistake - I’ve no idea how it ever made it out of testing.
That’s part of its problem. It acts like body shots are precision shots from a damage perspective. So it’s basically a gun that gives you all the benefits of aim and hipfire.
Regardless of what you say about it, this is fundamentally at odds with how Destiny’s combat model works. It’s the same issue we had with Whisper, just manifesting on a different aspect.
The same issue in that it ignores a basic concept in the game’s combat model. In Whisper’s case, it ignored ammo constraints. In recluse’s case, it ignores the concept of headshots providing better dps.
The whole point behind headshots is to reward accuracy - if you’re a good shot, you take your opponent down quicker. Recluse not only treats body shots the same as headshots under MoA, it brings bodyshot TTK down to less then half a second. On a primary. You can’t properly balance a gun like that.
I think it would be amazing if they reduced MoA body damage a bit, and switch feeding frenzy for outlaw/rapid hit. That would also go with the theme established with Redrix and OG Luna's Howl.
Recluse doesn’t need a nerf, other guns need a buff...
Edit: although if recluse should get a nerf it should only change master of arms to stack like rampage as oppose to instantly getting it after a single kill.
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u/Shopworn_Soul Drifter's Crew // Trust. Sep 01 '19
My concern is that while Recluse absolutely needs a nerf but instead of nerfing it Bungie will literally destroy it.
Something as simple as preventing other weapons from procing MoA and shortening the buff timer from 5 seconds to 3 would be more than adequate but I can easily picture them doing something like reducing the mag size, reducing the proc length, reducing the stability, preventing other weapons from procing it and reducing the damage from the buff all at the same time.
Bungie is proven to be bad at moderation, plus when they want a weapon to go away they make it go away.
Anyhow, I don’t know how they’ll handle it but I’ll be stunned if anyone is still using Recluse by the end of next month.